Yes, it's time for Eakins

[Zee]

I say let Carlyle finish this season. If his decisions assist in a high draft pick all the power to him. I think Nonis should be given the opportunity to hire his own head coach. I know reports are he wanted Eakins instead of Carlyle but Burke wouldn't listen.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I think this thread is a tad early.

 

[Zee]

I think this thread is a tad early.

It's never too early to discuss the next coach. This isn't Lindy Ruff so he'll be fired at some point.

 

[Deebo]

But OTOH why should Nonis stick with Carlyle?  It wasn't his hire, and Carlyle IMO has been pretty handily outcoached a few times already this season. 

I'm assuming MLSE probably isn't keen on paying three head coaches at the same time.

And I assume they have taken notes from the RIM situation and probably aren't keen on watching their flagship product continue to plummet in terms of both quality and marketability.

Leafs for MLSE are more like iPhones for Apple.  Same crap every year keeps bringing in the bank.

Hehehe... it's funny to insult the most/2nd most lucrative company in the world that I could never dream of even working for let alone copy with my own company because it's hip and cool. Go me! I'm a Microsoft/Linux/Android/BB or whatever lover that's totally right and all you other people are wrong!

/sarcasm

MLSE Just like Apple and any other company that's successful for the most part is trying to stay competitive and creative. I don't doubt ever in my mind that what these companies want is to win. I highly doubt they're sitting in a board room somewhere talking about how little work they can do to turn in the same paycheck. They want the cup. Just like Apple is always trying to make the best phone in the world.

Obviously, Toronto hasn't brought home the cup in a while. A long long while. But I really think it's pathetic to joke about it as if they aren't trying. Maybe they have the wrong people in the positions they're in. Maybe they don't always make the perfect trades and decisions. But I never doubt that they're at least trying to do these things correctly.

And as for Apple bashing. Get your head out of your butt. Those jokes are old and tired. Insult the zune or something. At least it was a failure by a company trying for greatness and would be relevant rather than a company trying for greatness and succeeding far better than every other company in their entire industry.

Apple fanboys are funny, they react like you are insulting their first-born when you make a joke about a corporation that made a few products they own.

 

[maplesyrup]

I think this thread is a tad early.

It's never too early to discuss the next coach. This isn't Lindy Ruff so he'll be fired at some point.

I don't know. Seems pretty premature to me too. Also, did anyone expect a record better than 4-5 at this point?

 

[Bullfrog]

Apple fanboys are funny, they react like you are insulting their first-born when make a joke about a corporation that made a few products they own.

Corporations are people too.  :-\

 

[Redleaf]

But OTOH why should Nonis stick with Carlyle?  It wasn't his hire, and Carlyle IMO has been pretty handily outcoached a few times already this season. 

I'm assuming MLSE probably isn't keen on paying three head coaches at the same time.

In all likelihood, it'll be four if Eakins can't get the Leafs atop the standings in 26 games or less.

 

[bustaheims]

Let's be honest, people. Carlyle's not going anywhere before he gets a full season and, possibly more importantly, a full training camp with the team.

 

[cw]

Too early for me as well.

It usually takes 20 games or so to see what you've really got when a new system is being implemented.

Carlyle hasn't been flawless and I haven't agreed with every decision he's made but I don't think he's been anywhere close to downright bad or anything like that.

I think the D personnel he's working with right now, particularly with Gardiner (who is suspect defensively) and Gunnarsson out, is pretty shallow. If I tried to slot them on a good Cup contending D, here's how I'd probably roughly look at it (while realizing not everybody will see it quite the same way):

_______  _______ 1st pairing
_______  Phaneuf  2nd pairing
Liles        Kostka (and I wouldn't put those two together)

7th dmen: Komisarek (may be a 6th this season), Franson (might settle in as a 6th - time will tell), Fraser, Holzer (who both might steady as a 6th with experience).

Injured: Gunnarsson (who might be a top 4 or make it to the top 4, definitely capable of 3rd pairing now) & Gardiner (who will someday likely be a decent top 4 but isn't now defensively)

The future is probably brighter for this group than they're playing right now but right now, they're not a very good group in my opinion.

We could go through the forwards that way as well. It's going to take Carlyle some time to assess what he's got and these players some time to adjust to what Carlyle is trying to do.

I like Eakins. He'll coach in the NHL someday soon. But to switch to him anytime soon seems over the top. Like the players, Carlyle deserves more of a chance to prove what he can do with this group.

 

[ZBBM]

I like Eakins. He'll coach in the NHL someday soon. But to switch to him anytime soon seems over the top. Like the players, Carlyle deserves more of a chance to prove what he can do with this group.

If Eakins was Nonis' first choice, he ought to go to him sooner rather than later, with no apologies.  Eakins isn't going to last much longer in the AHL, and I would hate to see another team hire him away from us.  He profiles much better for a team that is (or ought to be) undergoing, FINALLY, a complete rebuild -- it's the same dynamic as running the Marlies. 

I don't dislike Carlyle.  He's miles ahead of Wilson and he'll get another gig, easily.  I just don't think we need any administrative leftovers from Burke.  Getting Eakins in here goes hand in hand with getting rid of Phaneuf, Kessel, Komi, etc. etc. and starting over.  Clean slate, and whatnot.

 

[Zee]

I like Eakins. He'll coach in the NHL someday soon. But to switch to him anytime soon seems over the top. Like the players, Carlyle deserves more of a chance to prove what he can do with this group.

If Eakins was Nonis' first choice, he ought to go to him sooner rather than later, with no apologies.  Eakins isn't going to last much longer in the AHL, and I would hate to see another team hire him away from us.  He profiles much better for a team that is (or ought to be) undergoing, FINALLY, a complete rebuild -- it's the same dynamic as running the Marlies. 

I don't dislike Carlyle.  He's miles ahead of Wilson and he'll get another gig, easily.  I just don't think we need any administrative leftovers from Burke.  Getting Eakins in here goes hand in hand with getting rid of Phaneuf, Kessel, Komi, etc. etc. and starting over.  Clean slate, and whatnot.

Leafs always do things half-assed backwards.  The GM should pick his own coach, not have to keep the one from the last GM.

Burke comes in and has Wilson whom he didn't hire.  Sticks with him for some unknown reason (maybe pressure from ownership?) and then eventually fires him when it's too late.

Nonis takes over, has been on record as an Eakins supporter but now is stuck with Carlyle because Burke hired him.  Sure it's bad to be paying so many coaches, but if you really want this to be Nonis's team he has to be able to hand pick his coach.  So basically I'm agreeing with you, even if the optics of firing Carlyle would make the Leafs look stupid.

 

[cw]

I like Eakins. He'll coach in the NHL someday soon. But to switch to him anytime soon seems over the top. Like the players, Carlyle deserves more of a chance to prove what he can do with this group.

If Eakins was Nonis' first choice, he ought to go to him sooner rather than later, with no apologies.  Eakins isn't going to last much longer in the AHL, and I would hate to see another team hire him away from us.  He profiles much better for a team that is (or ought to be) undergoing, FINALLY, a complete rebuild -- it's the same dynamic as running the Marlies. 

I don't dislike Carlyle.  He's miles ahead of Wilson and he'll get another gig, easily.  I just don't think we need any administrative leftovers from Burke.  Getting Eakins in here goes hand in hand with getting rid of Phaneuf, Kessel, Komi, etc. etc. and starting over.  Clean slate, and whatnot.

I'd at least severely roll over this roster because I think it's a faster path to a Cup. But Nonis was around with Burke so he has some responsibility for where we are today and it's hard for him to do it when the broadcast owners want a playoff club soon (at least I think they do). I don't think that's in the cards.

As well, since some of the wick has already burned for Nonis as assistant GM, he's probably only got one coaching change in his upcoming remaining tenure as Leafs GM. He may not want to burn that so quickly - particularly with this roster lacking contender talent.

Carlyle has respectable credentials as a Norris winning 17 season NHL dman and a 17 year pro hockey coach who won a Stanley Cup.

44% of the current roster has already experienced Dallas Eakins as a coach (mostly in the AHL).

The Leafs are not going to win a Cup this season. So the best thing they can do is develop the younger players who are likely to be around when they contend for a Cup. With a coach like Carlyle, who is reportedly good with communications with these players, a season with him when half the team has already experienced Eakins, is probably not a bad thing for their development.

They can look at Eakins who they have under contract when the season is over.

 

[Peter D.]

Nonis takes over, has been on record as an Eakins supporter but now is stuck with Carlyle because Burke hired him.  Sure it's bad to be paying so many coaches, but if you really want this to be Nonis's team he has to be able to hand pick his coach.  So basically I'm agreeing with you, even if the optics of firing Carlyle would make the Leafs look stupid.

I agree that Nonis should be given autonomy for hiring his own coach and putting his fingerprints all over this team if he is going to be here for the foreseeable future (meaning until his 3-year contract is up at the least).

This has been thrown out there though, that perhaps Nonis isn't on the most solid of grounds (even with the contract) once a new president is brought in, at which time he may want to bring his own GM. 

Imagine a scenario where Nonis fires Carlyle and brings in Eakins, only for the new president to want to bring in his own GM, who then presses to handpick his own coach.  A lot of trickle down ramifications could come about here.

 

[Zee]

Nonis takes over, has been on record as an Eakins supporter but now is stuck with Carlyle because Burke hired him.  Sure it's bad to be paying so many coaches, but if you really want this to be Nonis's team he has to be able to hand pick his coach.  So basically I'm agreeing with you, even if the optics of firing Carlyle would make the Leafs look stupid.

I agree that Nonis should be given autonomy for hiring his own coach and putting his fingerprints all over this team if he is going to be here for the foreseeable future (meaning until his 3-year contract is up at the least).

This has been thrown out there though, that perhaps Nonis isn't on the most solid of grounds (even with the contract) once a new president is brought in, at which time he may want to bring his own GM. 

Imagine a scenario where Nonis fires Carlyle and brings in Eakins, only for the new president to want to bring in his own GM, who then presses to handpick his own coach.  A lot of trickle down ramifications could come about here.

Fantastic.  So basically let's do nothing this season, have the new president fire Nonis and we're all free and clear in the summer. 

Welcome to Leafs Nation!

 

[Peter D.]

Fantastic.  So basically let's do nothing this season, have the new president fire Nonis and we're all free and clear in the summer. 

Welcome to Leafs Nation!

That said, I don't think the time is right to fire Carlyle.  While some of his decisions are questionable, he hasn't even been given a half season's worth with the team, let alone a full training camp.  It takes time to implement a system. 

It's a shortened season, in which 1/6 of the season is already over, so I personally don't see the need to rush the decision.  If the Leafs make the playoffs, great.  If the Leafs don't but are showing noticeable improvement moving forward, just as well.

Eakins' out clause doesn't kick in until the summer, so there is still some time to buy with him.  I'd let him continue honing his skills in the minors and moulding certain players on the Marlies who he may coach with the big club.  No need to throw him to the wolves right now and being the lightning rod for all that may go wrong with the team.

 

[pnjunction]

Now that the frustration from last night has subsided (seeing that same useless PP over and over pushed me over the edge) I think I'm ready to cut Carlyle a bit of slack.

Even though we have been frustrated with the line choices and ice times for a while, it is only a 2 game losing streak after all.

That said, I think it is on Carlyle to do something to mix it up and keep this skid from extending.

If I see that same stupid PP out there tonight, the same 5-5 lines with the '3rd' line that is actually producing still getting few minutes, I'm going to lose it all over again.

 

[Optimus Reimer]

What I like this season compared to the Wilson years is I do see a defensive system that Carlyle is trying to implement, whereas under Wilson, I really didn't see a system.  To only give up 1 goal against the Bruins is indicative of an improved defensive system, then again, 4 really bad goals against the Canes is proof the players need to do more work defensively, so I am okay with Carlyle coaching for now.  If Carlyle can coach the Leafs into a playoff spot, why fire him at the end of the season?  If the Leafs do make the playoffs, keep him as coach and bring up Eakins as an assistant to obtain NHL level coaching experience, wait for Carlyle to fail and replace him with Eakins.  Or if Carlyle fails to get the Leafs into the playoffs, there would be additional strength to fire him after the season is over and replace him with Eakins.

 

[Highlander]

I like de plan O.R.

 

[Leaflifer]

I've only seen a few games, but it looks like RC has them playing zone defence. I couldn't be 100% sure because on some shifts one guy would be playing man on man and his partner is playing zone. coughkostkacough.

As far as not giving Kadri more minutes, I can only assume that it's best for his personal development to not put the team on his back at this point.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Are people really talking about firing Carlyle...already? :