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R1, G5: sens @ Maple Leafs - Apr. 29th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

Ozzie said:
Every year I say "this year is different". Sometimes I say that in August....sometimes in November.....sometimes February. This year I promised myself NOT to say those words.

But I did.... during the last several games of the regular season in April. I said "THIS YEAR IS DIFFERENT"!!!

Leafs are not the team that will blow this. They may lose a game here and there and they can lose a lot of games to better teams (like the Cats).... but they are better than Ottawa and their systems are currently humming. Leafs played well enuff to close Game 4 and they can do it tonight too!

Go Leafs Go!
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This post aged like rotton ass cheese.
 
Yeah, I feel the same as others. Every part of this team is improved, coaching, goaltending, d-men, bottom 6, the core 4 sadly, have not. I would even pin it on just 16, 34 & 88. Not nearly good enough, tough enough and willing to do what's necessary to stand up to the challenges of post season hockey. They talked about killer instinct how long ago? They still ain't got it. What an embarrassment it would be to lose to a much younger, lowly team like the Senaturds. Deserving of a major tear down.
 
Woll over Stolarz? LOL, like Stolarz is the issue? What in the world are some people watching...

Anyway, I don't forsee any major lineup changes but McMann up with Tavares/Nylander, Robertson in for Pacioretty and Domi down with Laughton and Jarnkrok would be a decent tweak. But hopefully they show some passion Game 6, cuz they already look defeated..
 
Guilt Trip said:
It's been one game that the stars haven't been there. And Stolarz gets some shade here. 4 of the last 6 haven't been good. They could have won GM4 in OT if he doesn't let in that stinker. They gave up 2 shots in the 3rd period in game 3 and he gave up a goal on the 1st shot. In GM4 they gave up 3 shots in the final 2 periods yet he gave up a goal on the 1st shot in the 3rd and a lousy one in OT. This series should already be over. Another weak one tonight after the Leafs had another good period defensively and only gave up 5 shots. Weak goals are killers, that's a fact and there are stats to back it up. Goalies that give up weak goals, their team loses 70% of the time no matter when the bad goal is given up. Tonight nobody showed but he needs to be better in GM6.
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I get what you're saying and yes a good goalie changes everything, just look at Florida 2 years ago when Bob went on his tear so yes I get it. But our core has way to much history now of disappearing when we need them the most, and it's time to say it and say it loud, this team just isn't right. Btw I still think they're going to win this series but I don't think they'll get out of round 2.
 
The core was bad last night, but where is the supporting cast? Outside of Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander/Knies, the rest of the forwards have scored all of 1 goal. That's jsut not good enough. And don't give me that BS about the team not being able to afford depth because of the core 4's contracts. It's an oversimplified and surface level response, and it's also, quite frankly, not the truth. Other teams have guys in similar pay ranges to the Leafs' depth players that contribute. You don't have playoff success without guys lower in the lineup stepping up, and, year after year, the Leafs haven't gotten that.
 
bustaheims said:
The core was bad last night, but where is the supporting cast? Outside of Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander/Knies, the rest of the forwards have scored all of 1 goal. That's jsut not good enough. And don't give me that BS about the team not being able to afford depth because of the core 4's contracts. It's an oversimplified and surface level response, and it's also, quite frankly, not the truth. Other teams have guys in similar pay ranges to the Leafs' depth players that contribute. You don't have playoff success without guys lower in the lineup stepping up, and, year after year, the Leafs haven't gotten that.
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I hear you, but:

Marner - 1g in the 5 games
Matthews - 1g
Nylander - 1g

At least Tavares has 3g in 5 games.
 
Frank E said:
I hear you, but:

Marner - 1g in the 5 games
Matthews - 1g
Nylander - 1g

At least Tavares has 3g in 5 games.
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That's still the bulk of the offence. They've all chipped in. If you expect the win the series solely on the contribution of a handful of guys, you're setting yourself up for failure. Makes the team too easy to shut down. Never mind just goals, 3rd and 4th lines have 5 total points - each of the "core 4" have at least that. That's nowhere near good enough support. Teams can basically ignore half the forwards. These guys need to step up the way other teams have their depth players - guys who are in similar salary ranges to the Leafs' depth - have.

It's every year. The only significant contributors are the core. The rest of the roster goes AWOL, but the core gets all the blame. Expecting them to do it alone is just absurd. It's a team game and half the team are doing nothing.
 
Secondary scoring is important. But when you have three players making almost $35 million those guys need to show up.

The ONE constant over the last almost 10 years has been 16,34,88,91,44. The other constant is they can't win.
 
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
Secondary scoring is important. But when you have three players making almost $35 million those guys need to show up.

The ONE constant over the last almost 10 years has been 16,34,88,91,44. The other constant is they can't win.
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The only game they didn't show up in was last night. The depth has barely shown up throughout the series. The 5 guys you're calling out have 8 of the team's 15 goals. Add in Knies, and that covers 11 of them. The rest of the roster has 4 goals - 3 from the defence. You can't win when no one else contributes.
 
bustaheims said:
The only game they didn't show up in was last night. The depth has barely shown up throughout the series. The 5 guys you're calling out have 8 of the team's 15 goals. Add in Knies, and that covers 11 of them. The rest of the roster has 4 goals - 3 from the defence. You can't win when no one else contributes.
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I agree with that, 100%.

But what's the solution?

This goes back to Lou trading for Freddy soon as they drafted Matthews. Then Dubas and now BT trading away picks and prospects for rental players. Leafs are trying to fill out the roster with the likes of McMann, a career minor league player.

You can't pay half the cap to a handful of players, and expect the guys making $1.5M a year to come up clutch. The $10-$13.5M players need to come up clutch.
 
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
I agree with that, 100%.

But what's the solution?

This goes back to Lou trading for Freddy soon as they drafted Matthews. Then Dubas and now BT trading away picks and prospects for rental players. Leafs are trying to fill out the roster with the likes of McMann, a career minor league player.

You can't pay half the cap to a handful of players, and expect the guys making $1.5M a year to come up clutch. The $10-$13.5M players need to come up clutch.
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That is the crux of the problem - the team has been poorly managed. The Andersen trade was fine - the team needed a reliable goalie and he was the best available - but the deadline moves that came in the years that followed have been mostly bad. Too many 1st round picks were moved for rentals that didn't contribute. They tried to patch over too many holes instead of finding actual solutions. To me, the move that really set this off was signing Marleau to a 3 year deal. That was the beginning of rushing to raise expectations, and there's been a cascade of missteps since then.
 
bustaheims said:
The only game they didn't show up in was last night. The depth has barely shown up throughout the series. The 5 guys you're calling out have 8 of the team's 15 goals. Add in Knies, and that covers 11 of them. The rest of the roster has 4 goals - 3 from the defence. You can't win when no one else contributes.
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I slept on my frustration. I'm still done with this roster. That was a gutless performance last night.

You are absolutely right the depth once again is completely non-existent.

Laughton/Lorentz/Jarnkrok getting praise for mindless cycling is comical. They have played well but you need a depth goal or two at some point.

Laughton/Lorentz/Jarnkrok - 15 GP 0G 2A combined
Domi/Holmberg/McMann/Robertson/Pacciorretty - 20GP 1G 2A combined

Let's take a look at Robertson vs. Pacciorettty

Robertson - 2GP 1 assist +/-0 19 HITS 4 BLOCK SHOTS.....2 penalties
Paccioretty - 3GP 0 points -2 16 HITS 1 BLOCKED SHOT.

Now the top 5 forwards weren't good enough last night. They were downright bad for big stretches. Nylander is by far the worst of the bunch right now. His lazy back checking on the short handed goal was embarrassing. But you ultimately have 9G 18A 27P out of the big 5 forwards. You have 1G 4A of the other 8 forwards who have played.

The depth sucks at doing the you need to win hockey games which is put the puck in the net.

Shanahan needs to be fired. Honestly, with Marner likely walking for absolutely zero return this team is going to have a massive hole they probably aren't going to be able to fill. My opinion on the direction of the franchise right now is not very high. It was Game 5 at home and the team couldn't be bothered to compete. I'm tired.
 
L K said:
Shanahan needs to be fired. Honestly, with Marner likely walking for absolutely zero return this team is going to have a massive hole they probably aren't going to be able to fill. My opinion on the direction of the franchise right now is not very high.
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The issue is, and always has been, ownership. Shanahan is just the representative of ownership.

Rogers has zero ability to compete. They are use to business where they get a license and now they make all the money. Thats a telecom license in Canada (zero foreign competition and zero ability or desire to expand abroad). So Rogers just does what's safe to make sure their hockey franchise license that monopolizes Toronto always keeps the top elite guys without rocking the boat. It's a cash cow!

But to win at this level you need an ultra competitive mindset and push that extra 5% to grab the win. Rogers/Shanahan will NEVER do that and don't even know how to do it. They think signing top players for maximum dollars is the solution. They are trying to win....but like their picks in elite players..... they don't have the instinct to do what it takes to win because they didn't need to compete.

You can compare to aggressive hedge fund technology businessperson Vincent Viola who built the Panthers into a playoff machine after he watched his Presidents Trophy winners couldn't get deep in the playoffs in 2022. He didn't wait 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 seasons to let it playout....or "hope" it would change. The summer after they won the trophy but got stopped at the second round of the playoffs....he took big swings at every level. He was there to win. And his swings quickly produced a winner.

Everyone on this fucking planet knows what's wrong with the Leafs. Just like every Canadian who has lived outside of Canada knows how expensive and poor service Rogers is as a telecom company. But it's a cash cow that doesn't need to really push that extra 5% because it's already 'good enough' to make money in a captured market.

Similar ownership issue applied to the prior owner Ontario Teachers....which also didn't have the business culture to produce a winner....beyond a cash flow.

Nothing will change until this issue changes. Or Toronto gets a second franchise where there is some commercial competition.
 
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L K said:
Let's take a look at Robertson vs. Pacciorettty

Robertson - 2GP 1 assist +/-0 19 HITS 4 BLOCK SHOTS.....2 penalties
Paccioretty - 3GP 0 points -2 16 HITS 1 BLOCKED SHOT.
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This was the big mistake Berube made. Yes 89 took a bad penalty in game 2. GM 1s penalty came after the game was over. It happens but other then that, he worked his ass off out there. He was also instrumental in the OT winner in GM 2. So Berube goes against the change a winning lineup theme and took him out and now L3 has been a tire fire. With 89, L3 gave up 3 scoring chances, (1 high danger) and had 3 chances for. With Patches, L3 has given up 32, (10 high danger) and had 6 for. That's not a good trend and I'm shocked that he didn't put 89 back in last night especially after L3 with Patches had given up 24 scoring chances in 2 games.
 
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