2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Guilt Trip]

Oh come on. If Lameriello didn't sign him to that stupid contract, Dubas wouldn't have been forced to make that trade. It's a pretty simple straight line. I don't know how this is a stretch at all. Dubas didn't create that mess.

And the thing was, everyone involved knew he wasn't playing the 3rd year of that contract here.

 

[Bender]

I do not think the core 4 was grossly overpaid by Dubas.
Tavares was a top UFA and probably could have got a little more.
Marner & Matthews have been top 10 scorers and good defensively since they came into the league
Nylander was a cut below because he was not great defensively and didn't rack up as much offensively.
But their contracts were in line with others in the league when you consider the timing of the signing, the duration, etc.
The NMCs were also common around the league.
Covid threw the cap growth off so they were cap tight to fill in the supporting cast

I'm so tired of the covid cap and "they were paid what they were worth" excuses. The whole league had to deal with the same cap and other players came due for contracts. Instead of pivoting when they knew the cap wasn't going up they doubled down on regular season success and playoff futility.

As for contracts, they played hardball with Willy and got him at a very good number (barring his first year) and refused to do that with Mitch and Auston and instead coddled them both, especially with Mitch's camp being highly unprofessional along the way. Point, Kucherov, Rantanen, Aho. The list goes on - the Leafs players had the most expensive contracts vs. their comparables, and the easy way to know that at minimum Mitch was overpaid was looking that he got barely over $1M raise from a contract he signed 6yrs prior.

If the management group had any stones like Vegas they'd have no problem trading one or both of them if they put themselves before the team.

 

[cw]

I take exception to this. I think there is some proof in the numbers. I've done no research on this but I can't think of another player entering free agency for the first time, coming off a career year, who signed for only a $1m increase on the yearly salary from their previous contract. To me, that shows Marner was overpaid on his previous deal.

There are two great comparable players in Point and specifically Rantanen. Marner received $10m more than Rantanen over the same time period, signed the same year, and I don't think it's a coincidence the signed identical 8-year/$96m contracts this past offseason.


(*I won't litigate what McDavid did. He clearly could have received $17m or more on his free agent deal if he so desired)

I don't agree.

Projections for Marner's contract on the open market were as high as $15.4/yr for 7 yrs
Most projections came in at $13.5 to $14/yr
He took $12 to go to a team he wanted that was very cap tight. Marner also could have received more if he desired.
Rantanen might still be with Colorado if he had been willing to take less.
Marner is tied for 7th with Crosby in scoring since he came into the league. He's always belonged in the very high rent district
He's outscored all the Leafs again this year and he put up more points in the playoffs and regular season while wearing blue & white.
He's +43 better than Rantanen since 2016-17 and put up a few more points.
More all star selections than Rantanen
Selke finalist - getting Selke votes annually unlike Rantanen
Team Canada Olympics 4th highest ice time among CDN forwards
Nations Cup I think he was 3rd in forward ice time - with Point's coach giving him more ice time than Point
Point scored significantly less and his +/- was about half of Marner's since 2016-17

 

[dappleganger]

I don't agree.

Projections for Marner's contract on the open market were as high as $15.4/yr for 7 yrs
Most projections came in at $13.5 to $14/yr
He took $12 to go to a team he wanted that was very cap tight. Marner also could have received more if he desired.
Rantanen might still be with Colorado if he had been willing to take less.
Marner is tied for 7th with Crosby in scoring since he came into the league. He's always belonged in the very high rent district
He's outscored all the Leafs again this year and he put up more points in the playoffs and regular season while wearing blue & white.
He's +43 better than Rantanen since 2016-17 and put up a few more points.
More all star selections than Rantanen
Selke finalist - getting Selke votes annually unlike Rantanen
Team Canada Olympics 4th highest ice time among CDN forwards
Nations Cup I think he was 3rd in forward ice time - with Point's coach giving him more ice time than Point
Point scored significantly less and his +/- was about half of Marner's since 2016-17

Crosby makes $8.7m

I honestly think we're having different arguments. I'm not saying Marner wasn't worth the contract he signed for, but that he got paid more than comparable players off of one point-per-game season when he signed in 2019.

Marner wasn’t wildly above market but relative to similar wingers at the time, he was about $1–2M higher than he should have been, especially for an RFA and for only a 6-year term.

 

[Arn]

But how sad it is that the owners have made fans dislike players for getting paid what they’re worth (or maybe claiming an extra few $x ) rather than just letting them be liked for being fun to watch.

 

[herman]

But how sad it is that the owners have made fans dislike players for getting paid what they’re worth (or maybe claiming an extra few $x ) rather than just letting them be liked for being fun to watch.

Normally yes. Marner is a separate case.

 

[cabber24]

I don't agree.

Projections for Marner's contract on the open market were as high as $15.4/yr for 7 yrs
Most projections came in at $13.5 to $14/yr
He took $12 to go to a team he wanted that was very cap tight. Marner also could have received more if he desired.
Rantanen might still be with Colorado if he had been willing to take less.
Marner is tied for 7th with Crosby in scoring since he came into the league. He's always belonged in the very high rent district
He's outscored all the Leafs again this year and he put up more points in the playoffs and regular season while wearing blue & white.
He's +43 better than Rantanen since 2016-17 and put up a few more points.
More all star selections than Rantanen
Selke finalist - getting Selke votes annually unlike Rantanen
Team Canada Olympics 4th highest ice time among CDN forwards
Nations Cup I think he was 3rd in forward ice time - with Point's coach giving him more ice time than Point
Point scored significantly less and his +/- was about half of Marner's since 2016-17

You forgot the part about him absolutely sucking in the playoffs from the beginning of time. Sucking relative to other sucking is still sucking.

 

[Bender]

I don't agree.

Projections for Marner's contract on the open market were as high as $15.4/yr for 7 yrs
Most projections came in at $13.5 to $14/yr
He took $12 to go to a team he wanted that was very cap tight. Marner also could have received more if he desired.
Rantanen might still be with Colorado if he had been willing to take less.
Marner is tied for 7th with Crosby in scoring since he came into the league. He's always belonged in the very high rent district
He's outscored all the Leafs again this year and he put up more points in the playoffs and regular season while wearing blue & white.
He's +43 better than Rantanen since 2016-17 and put up a few more points.
More all star selections than Rantanen
Selke finalist - getting Selke votes annually unlike Rantanen
Team Canada Olympics 4th highest ice time among CDN forwards
Nations Cup I think he was 3rd in forward ice time - with Point's coach giving him more ice time than Point
Point scored significantly less and his +/- was about half of Marner's since 2016-17

You really are telling on yourself by not including Rantanen's post-season numbers.

 

[Bender]

Crosby makes $8.7m

I honestly think we're having different arguments. I'm not saying Marner wasn't worth the contract he signed for, but that he got paid more than comparable players off of one point-per-game season when he signed in 2019.

Marner wasn’t wildly above market but relative to similar wingers at the time, he was about $1–2M higher than he should have been, especially for an RFA and for only a 6-year term.

Death by a thousand cuts.