2012 CBA Negotiations Thread

[bustaheims]

You know what's crazy? TSN and Sportsnet both sent people to New York this week to cover the CBA meetings that we're being held at a SECRET location. There was no media availability whatsoever except for Friday. What's the point of doing hits from NYC then?

The "secret location" was the offices of Proskauer Rose, and Donald Fehr met with the media on Thursday as well.

 

[bustaheims]

Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Meeting lasted less than an hour. NHL completely unwilling to budge on any player contracting issues, according to Don Fehr

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Bill Daly:"PA give us 17 issues on players contract last week. We have a deal, or made progress on 14 of them."

One of these things is not like the other . . .

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Meeting lasted less than an hour. NHL completely unwilling to budge on any player contracting issues, according to Don Fehr

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Bill Daly:"PA give us 17 issues on players contract last week. We have a deal, or made progress on 14 of them."

One of these things is not like the other . . .

Well, you know the bottom has fell out from any momentum they had built as both sides are back to the 'he said/she said' game. Sad really.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

You know the story reported in good faith all week by journalists covering the owners? lockout, that the league would be willing to withdraw most, if not all, of its proposed freedom restrictions other than the one on front-loaded contracts if the players would agree to go 50/50?

Well, it?s not true, not any more, if ever.

For this from an individual in the room for Friday?s negotiating sessions and confirmed word-for-word by Slap Shots by a source across the aisle:

?Near the end of the meeting, Don [Fehr] said to Gary [Bettman]: ?Let me get this straight. Even if the players agree to every single component of the league?s economic plan, we still don?t have a deal unless we also agree to every one of your proposed changes to player contract rights?? ?

To which, both of our sources reported, ?Gary said: ?Yes.??

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/don_bett_on_this_commish_IEaFOaMafgPLGAnT5fPrJN

EDIT: Forgot to add - but this is the NY Post so....take it with a tub of salt, but you never know.

 

[maplesyrup]

So, what was this whole week about then?

 

[OldTimeHockey]

So, what was this whole week about then?

Meh, I figure every 3 weeks or so some meetings will pop up to make sure they still have our attention

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Here's Bob McKenzie's take on where we stand:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409277

 

[bustaheims]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/don_bett_on_this_commish_IEaFOaMafgPLGAnT5fPrJN

EDIT: Forgot to add - but this is the NY Post so....take it with a tub of salt, but you never know.

That comes from Larry Brooks, who has been one of the most transparently pro-PA writers out there. It also runs contrary to the quote from Daly I posted earlier, where he states pretty clearly the league has negotiated positions or are in the process of negotiating positions on 14 of 17 contractual issues that have been raised.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/don_bett_on_this_commish_IEaFOaMafgPLGAnT5fPrJN

EDIT: Forgot to add - but this is the NY Post so....take it with a tub of salt, but you never know.

That comes from Larry Brooks, who has been one of the most transparently pro-PA writers out there.

Someone has to counter-balance you!

 

[bustaheims]

Someone has to counter-balance you!

Hey now. I think both sides are being ridiculous. One is just being slightly less ridiculous.

 

[Kin]

It also runs contrary to the quote from Daly I posted earlier, where he states pretty clearly the league has negotiated positions or are in the process of negotiating positions on 14 of 17 contractual issues that have been raised.

Leaving aside whatever agenda Daly may have I don't necessarily see the report as being contradictory with the statement. A "negotiated position" on a contractual issue is a pretty broad term and can still be one where, as of the most recent negotiations, the NHL was looking for changes that they insisted upon.

However, I think this very much illustrates my point about the danger of "sources said".

 

[Hampreacher]

I am hearing from fans in Canada and US who are saying owners and players are ruining the league and there is a strong possiblity they will not be back. As the lockout continues than number will increase. If the issue is contractual. One was on length of contract. Players say take the 5 year max. in exchange for free agency at 26. That way both win and both lose some. As for who pays for the losses caused by the lockout> Who sarted it. Both need to and will have to pay for the cost. As for the share and make whole both take themiddle ground of both. The cost will be much too great not to settle not soon but now. Get it done now. For some teams the damage done now may be irrepairable and more are fast slipping over the edge into the same fate.

 

[pnjunction]

In the end it doesn't matter who I think is to blame, I only have one way to voice my opinion that either side cares about: my money.

I find it funny they argue over projected growth rates and who will take the fall if growth is small (or negative). If I had my way their revenues would take a beating for at least a year or two to punish them for their inability to do the only thing most fans really care about (play the f*@#ing game).  We should set the precedent that they need to get these deals done without disruption or pay the price for their greed and arrogance.

Unfortunately being in Toronto my opinion dollars are not worth much, tickets will sell out regardless and a Leafs TV sub is not much money in comparison.

 

[hockeyfan1]

From:
http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48835-Steve-Fehr-says-deal-can-be-made-quickly-once-breakthrough-happens-in-NHL-talks.html

Steve Fehr, special counsel to the NHL Players' Association, believes the collective bargaining agreement can be wrapped up in a hurry once the sides make a breakthrough in negotiations.

"One thing (deputy commissioner) Bill Daly and I agree upon is that when the moment is right the deal could be done very quickly," Fehr said Monday during a panel discussion at the PrimeTime Sports Management Conference. "One days, three days or whatever."

Fehr told the panel that three issues remain to be solved: the split of money, player contract rights and who pays for the damage caused by the lockout.

...Pittsburgh Penguins captain Sidney Crosby sounding off to reporters on Monday. The NHL has proposed changes to entry-level deals, arbitration, free agency and contract limits.
"The question I'd ask is why would we change that?" said Crosby. "I think we all think it's the most competitive league in the world so why would you go and change that?the way contracts go and the way teams can operate?

We're not making any real progress in those areas," said Fehr. "It's kind of hard to believe anyone's going to drive the industry bus off a cliff over things like that, but I've seen things before that surprise me."

On a more positive note, he indicated that the sides were "fairly close" to an agreement on revenue sharing.

"It's almost as if in the capped sports it's become a rewriting of the Hippocratic Oath," said Fehr. "Instead of first 'do no harm,' it's first lockout and then we'll see what happens. I guess they've decided they can live with how the fans feel about it and they're not going to by shy about doing it."

He also hinted that NHL owners might not be taking the union seriously during these negotiations.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Crosby's frustration...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/11/13/sidney_crosby_owners_no_hurry_end_nhl_lockout/...

 

[Hampreacher]

Cancel the season and you might as well drop Nashville, Columbus, Florida, Tampa Bay. and maybe the Coyotes because thay  are done. They are albatrosses now they will be boat anchors if don't settle now. When they drop them who gets first pick in dispersal draft? Where do leafs pick?

 

[Redleaf]

All I hear is doom and gloom.......

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rPFGWVKXxm0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DrPFGWVKXxm0

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Let's have a 2 week break in negotiating.  Clearly you have no interest in negotiating.

Does. Not. Compute.

 

[bustaheims]

Let's have a 2 week break in negotiating.  Clearly you have no interest in negotiating.

Does. Not. Compute.

At this point, both sides probably do need to take some time away from each other to re-group and re-strategize. What they've been doing so far has gotten them nowhere. Agreeing to not talk for a couple weeks isn't going to make things any worse than they already are.

 

[bustaheims]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/179601461.html

In an email to the Star Tribune, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal. They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal -- five times. They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issues."

I sent an email to the NHLPA seeking response. From special counsel Steve Fehr:

"Of course everyone on the players' side wants to reach an agreement. The players have offered the owners concessions worth about a billion dollars. What exactly have the owners offered the players? We believe that it is more likely that we will make progress if we meet than if we don't. So we are ready to meet. If indeed they do not want to meet, it will be at least the third time in the last three months that they have shut down the dialogue, saying they will not meet unless the players meet their preconditions. What does that tell you about their interest in resolving this?"