2013-2014 NHL Thread

[Kin]

$6.5M is currently tied for the 8th highest cap hit among defencemen.

Sure, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could legitimately be categorized as an elite defenseman who wasn't on one of the old style backdiving deals or, say, a young player on a bridge deal who had a lower cap hit. So it's "tied for 8th", sure, but in that upper tier of defensemen it's also basically dead last.

It's in the same range that guys like Karlsson and Doughty will carry for all but the final year of the contract.

Right. Those would also be examples of teams wanting to go this route with elite young defensemen and I'd argue that Pieterangelo is actually the best all around of the three.

It's fair value, not a situation where you can really say he's going to out perform his cap hit for the next few seasons. It might look better near the end of the deal, depending on how the market eventually settles out with the newest CBA but, even then, it'll still likely be in the top 15-20 at his position, and, if that's how things play out, I'd be hard-pressed to look at him as someone who's really out-playing his cap hit.

Yeah, it's tough for me to say that when you consider that already Pieterangelo is at the bottom of the price range for elite defensemen despite the fact that he's at the very top end in terms of ability/desirability. Right now he's priced himself below where his ability would put him in a free market and near the end of it, even if he doesn't substantially improve(which I think you'd agree would be unlikely for a 23 year old defenseman) he could be one of the very best defensemen in the league getting paid like he's, as you say, in the 15-20 range. That's about as good a deal as you're going to get on a player.

 

[bustaheims]

Sure, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could legitimately be categorized as an elite defenseman who wasn't on one of the old style backdiving deals or, say, a young player on a bridge deal who had a lower cap hit. So it's "tied for 8th", sure, but in that upper tier of defensemen it's also basically dead last.

I'm sorry, but I have to call you out for your hyperbole here. It's hardly "dead last" by any means. It's more than Keith, OEL and others who are still elite young defencemen not on bridge deals (though, Keith's is an old style, back diving contract). And, that 8th place also includes contracts to guys who will be retiring or facing significant salary reductions when their current contracts end (in one case Bouwmeester - that new contract has been signed and sees his cap hit drop over $1M). As soon as this coming summer, that 8th place could very well end up 6th.

Yeah, it's tough for me to say that when you consider that already Pieterangelo is at the bottom of the price range for elite defensemen despite the fact that he's at the very top end in terms of ability/desirability. Right now he's priced himself below where his ability would put him in a free market and near the end of it, even if he doesn't substantially improve(which I think you'd agree would be unlikely for a 23 year old defenseman) he could be one of the very best defensemen in the league getting paid like he's, as you say, in the 15-20 range. That's about as good a deal as you're going to get on a player.

Despite the fact that I disagree with your premise about Pieterangle being at the bottom end for elite defencemen, I also wouldn't say he's right at near the top in terms of ability/desirability, either. In fact, I'd say he's priced exactly where he belongs - among the top 10 in the league, but not top 5. I also wouldn't say he's likely to substantially improve. He's right in that age range where he's offensive production is at or near it's peak. His defensive play will improve, yes (though, how much is in question, since he's already pretty good), but there isn't likely much room to grow offensively. In terms of value, my guess is he ends up a top 10 defenceman getting paid like a top 15 defenceman, and, in my eyes, that's not exactly having a GM "exploit" the ability to get a young player to perform above their cap hit.

 

[Kin]

I'm sorry, but I have to call you out for your hyperbole here. It's hardly "dead last" by any means. It's more than Keith, OEL and others who are still elite young defencemen not on bridge deals (though, Keith's is an old style, back diving contract). And, that 8th place also includes contracts to guys who will be retiring or facing significant salary reductions when their current contracts end (in one case Bouwmeester - that new contract has been signed and sees his cap hit drop over $1M). As soon as this coming summer, that 8th place could very well end up 6th.

Well, you're free to call it out but you're not right. Keith's contract isn't a fair comparison and Ekman-Larson signed his deal, and this is a point you hammered home quite a bit during the Kadri discussion, without having played a single full season at an elite level. Ekman-Larson, who by the way is an example supporting my contention that bridge contracts for good young players are going to be rarer, signed the deal in March without ever having received a Norris vote and who's career high total in points was, and is I suppose, 32. He is as much an elite Defenseman as Kadri is an elite forward.

Despite the fact that I disagree with your premise about Pieterangle being at the bottom end for elite defencemen, I also wouldn't say he's right at near the top in terms of ability/desirability, either.

That's fairly subjective on both our parts but I'm pretty confident with where I am there. He was a NHL second team all-star the last time there was a full-season as a 22 year old.

In terms of value, my guess is he ends up a top 10 defenceman getting paid like a top 15 defenceman, and, in my eyes, that's not exactly having a GM "exploit" the ability to get a young player to perform above their cap hit.

Considering that he's already been acknowledged as a top 5 defenseman in the league by a process that doesn't play to his strengths, I don't think that's a realistic look at where he ranks among NHL defensemen either now or going forward.

 

[hockeyfan1]

No high-stioking video reviews, hybrid icing to be  introduced during exhibition games (with final decision to be made afterwards), shallower nets will be in focus for upcoming season, and, visors mandatory for players who have played fewer than 25 games.

For more, dick here:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-not-reviewing-high-sticking-this-season/

 

[hockeyfan1]

U.S. President Obama has praise for Swedish hockey, that is, the Swedish-born players on the Cup-winning defending champions Blackhawks squad...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/obama-thankful-for-swedish-hockey/

 

[drummond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REAqCB9vfbU

some pretty nifty moves by Patrick Kane

 

[Jalili]

Dallas named Jamie Benn their captain

 

[CarltonTheBear]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/krys-barch-brett-gallant-rule-loophole-remove-other-011011548--nhl.html

Did the NHL really not expect this to happen?

 

[Jalili]

Calgary named Mark Giordano their captain.

 

[L K]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/krys-barch-brett-gallant-rule-loophole-remove-other-011011548--nhl.html

Did the NHL really not expect this to happen?

It also speaks very highly of the need to have fighting in the game.  If you were to argue that fighting is about an instinctual defense of your team, that is all well and good.  If you have the ability to pull each others helmets off before the fight, that requires 1) A discussion and mutual decision to do so 2) Premeditation which means you are going out there with the intention of fighting rather than playing hockey.

Get this garbage out of hockey

 

[hockeyfan1]

Thomas Vokoun out indefinitely...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/penguins-vokoun-sidelined-indefinitely-013331611--nhl.html

 

[princedpw]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/krys-barch-brett-gallant-rule-loophole-remove-other-011011548--nhl.html

Did the NHL really not expect this to happen?

It also speaks very highly of the need to have fighting in the game.  If you were to argue that fighting is about an instinctual defense of your team, that is all well and good.  If you have the ability to pull each others helmets off before the fight, that requires 1) A discussion and mutual decision to do so 2) Premeditation which means you are going out there with the intention of fighting rather than playing hockey.

Get this garbage out of hockey

Nice point.

 

[Madferret]

TSN's 2013-14 Top 50 Players Not terribly ground breaking but not a punch in the adams apple either

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

#43 for Kessel? I think that's a tad low...

 

[Kin]

TSN's 2013-14 Top 50 Players Not terribly ground breaking but not a punch in the adams apple either

I really question the value of rankings like that. What does it even mean to rank Pekke Rinne above Milan Lucic?

 

[hockeyfan1]

Based solely on value to his team, the Islanders Tavares surely ranks at or near the top, considering how dreadful the Isles would be without him.  Or, to put it another way, how important he was to get his team in the playoffs this past season.

 

[Jalili]

TSN's 2013-14 Top 50 Players Not terribly ground breaking but not a punch in the adams apple either

I really question the value of rankings like that. What does it even mean to rank Pekke Rinne above Milan Lucic?

It really should be ranked by individual position.

 

[Madferret]

TSN's 2013-14 Top 50 Players Not terribly ground breaking but not a punch in the adams apple either

I really question the value of rankings like that. What does it even mean to rank Pekke Rinne above Milan Lucic?

Are you suggesting Lucic is a better goaler than Rinne?

 

[Jalili]

So apparently Bissonette's 10 game suspension was reduced to 3.

Maybe this means Clarkson gets a reduction too?

 

[bustaheims]

So apparently Bissonette's 10 game suspension was reduced to 3.

Maybe this means Clarkson gets a reduction too?

TSNBobMcKenzie: For those asking on reducing Clarkson's 10 gamer, no chance. Need video evidence to create element of doubt. There's none on Clarkson. #TFC