2015-2016 NHL Thread

[L K]

To be fair though...if this is true, even some of the Pro-Stamkos crowd would have balked at that number.

I don't think this number in and of itself proves pro or anti signing Stamkos people right or wrong, I just think it's interesting in as much as everyone underestimated what it would cost regardless of what side of the argument they were on.

I do think, like I said to busta, that it sort of proves wrong anyone who thought they knew what Stamkos was thinking or how interested he really was in leaving Tampa but that's it.

It does make me skeptical of the Leafs ever being a destination where players WANT to play here and take discounts.  Have we ever really had a player sign in Toronto for less when it wasn't a choice between say Toronto and Edmonton?

 

[Frank E]

To be fair though...if this is true, even some of the Pro-Stamkos crowd would have balked at that number.

I don't think this number in and of itself proves pro or anti signing Stamkos people right or wrong, I just think it's interesting in as much as everyone underestimated what it would cost regardless of what side of the argument they were on.

I do think, like I said to busta, that it sort of proves wrong anyone who thought they knew what Stamkos was thinking or how interested he really was in leaving Tampa but that's it.

It does make me skeptical of the Leafs ever being a destination where players WANT to play here and take discounts.  Have we ever really had a player sign in Toronto for less when it wasn't a choice between say Toronto and Edmonton?

Maybe Komarov?  It's not like he came cheap though.

 

[herman]

Veeerrrrrryyy interesting...
https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/51mpkb/according_to_jeff_marek_stamkos_wanted_14m_per_to/d7d4juy

I mean, I bet he asked it.
From my understanding, the offer that Toronto made to him, with the spike in 'that' endorsement deal considered, was very, very comfortably above Tampa's financial offer when all things were considered.

I still don't know enough of the full story to commit to anything but from the people I've talked to since it fell apart, it sounds more like the dealbreaker was simply that he wasn't going to be the undisputed king of the team, and that if the Leafs weren't going to give him the keys, nobody would.

At that point, it made more sense to go with the devil he knew.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

To be fair though...if this is true, even some of the Pro-Stamkos crowd would have balked at that number.

I don't think this number in and of itself proves pro or anti signing Stamkos people right or wrong, I just think it's interesting in as much as everyone underestimated what it would cost regardless of what side of the argument they were on.

I do think, like I said to busta, that it sort of proves wrong anyone who thought they knew what Stamkos was thinking or how interested he really was in leaving Tampa but that's it.

It does make me skeptical of the Leafs ever being a destination where players WANT to play here and take discounts.  Have we ever really had a player sign in Toronto for less when it wasn't a choice between say Toronto and Edmonton?

I feel like that rarely happens in a UFA scenario as opposed to when the player grew up with the franchise.

 

[bustaheims]

https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/51mpkb/according_to_jeff_marek_stamkos_wanted_14m_per_to/d7d4juy

I mean, I bet he asked it.
it sounds more like the dealbreaker was simply that he wasn't going to be the undisputed king of the team, and that if the Leafs weren't going to give him the keys, nobody would.

I honestly don't know what this is even supposed to mean. What was he expecting? Say in lineup decisions? Being the sole focal point in a team sport? A cushy thrown on the bench?

I'm not sure this really jives with the impression we've gotten of Stamkos from interviews, teammates, coaches, etc. It's never struck me that he had this level of ego. I get that he was upset about being moved from C, but I always felt that was more about being uncomfortable playing on the wing more than anything else.

 

[Tigger]

Yeah, it doesn't seem right to me either, it mostly seems like he felt he had to play out the string to see what he really valued.

 

[Bullfrog]

I don't quite understand that either. He doesn't want talented teammates? He wants to be the only person in the mapleleafs calendar?

 

[rdowdall]

Wouldn't having Canadian Tire in the negotiations be a cap violation?

 

[Kin]

It does make me skeptical of the Leafs ever being a destination where players WANT to play here and take discounts.  Have we ever really had a player sign in Toronto for less when it wasn't a choice between say Toronto and Edmonton?

In the past? Sure. During the team's current funk? Not really. And to be fair it doesn't really make sense. A player in that situation would essentially be going to a place where he deserved to be paid more(given the relative value of hockey here vs. elsewhere) and where the job is harder(increased media attention, less privacy) and the cost of living is relatively high(not vs. LA or NY but anywhere else) and be ok with getting paid less.

I made this argument all the time during the lockout but the Leafs being able to pay their players more than other teams was entirely fair because you're in a lot of ways hiring them for what is a different job than what, say, Arizona is.

 

[Kin]

I don't quite understand that either. He doesn't want talented teammates? He wants to be the only person in the mapleleafs calendar?

It strikes me as maybe just being as simple as not wanting the same thing as what happened in Tampa. Wanting to be the #1 C where he went and, if a team couldn't promise that, then it being another case of not being an advantage over a situation in Tampa where he was very comfortable.

 

[Bullfrog]

I suspect it is that simple, but I'm still having troubles believing it was that important. For someone to request assurance they'd be the no.1 centre suggests some level of insecurity in a player that should be one of the premier players on the team.

I mean, he's one of the elite players in the league, it's not as if his new team would be relegating him to 3rd line with PK time.

Nonetheless, he had a reason to reject Toronto; so there's probably something to it.

 

[Kin]

I suspect it is that simple, but I'm still having troubles believing it was that important. For someone to request assurance they'd be the no.1 centre suggests some level of insecurity in a player that should be one of the premier players on the team.

Sure but it certainly wouldn't be the first time a big deal athlete had a very healthy sense of self.

Also, it may be less about the idea that Stamkos would have been the #1 guy and just about assurances that the Leafs saw him as such. There was/is some debate about whether Stamkos is on that upper tier of Crosby/Kopitar/Toews-esque #1 C's or if he's on that next rung down. Guaranteeing a spot on the depth chart may have been less important than just a general sense that Toronto saw him as that top level guy.

 

[Frank E]

I suspect it is that simple, but I'm still having troubles believing it was that important. For someone to request assurance they'd be the no.1 centre suggests some level of insecurity in a player that should be one of the premier players on the team.

I mean, he's one of the elite players in the league, it's not as if his new team would be relegating him to 3rd line with PK time.

Nonetheless, he had a reason to reject Toronto; so there's probably something to it.

It doesn't make any sense at all, you're right.

If Stamkos was such an egomaniac that he wanted "the keys" and be "the man" and command $14m from his next employer, then why would he sign for a hefty discount to be not the king of Tampa?

 

[herman]

In the past? Sure. During the team's current funk? Not really. And to be fair it doesn't really make sense. A player in that situation would essentially be going to a place where he deserved to be paid more(given the relative value of hockey here vs. elsewhere) and where the job is harder(increased media attention, less privacy) and the cost of living is relatively high(not vs. LA or NY but anywhere else) and be ok with getting paid less.

I made this argument all the time during the lockout but the Leafs being able to pay their players more than other teams was entirely fair because you're in a lot of ways hiring them for what is a different job than what, say, Arizona is.

This argument makes a lot of sense.

 

[Kin]

If Stamkos was such an egomaniac that he wanted "the keys" and be "the man" and command $14m from his next employer, then why would he sign for a hefty discount to be not the king of Tampa?

Because people can have conflicting priorities. Signing in Tampa was pretty clearly influenced in part because of his comfort level there and it was absolutely his best chance to win of the teams pursuing him. It's entirely reasonable to suggest that if Stamkos were going to give those things up that he would want something to take its place.

Read your Whitman. Stamkos is large, he contains multitudes.

 

[Frank E]

If Stamkos was such an egomaniac that he wanted "the keys" and be "the man" and command $14m from his next employer, then why would he sign for a hefty discount to be not the king of Tampa?

Because people can have conflicting priorities. Signing in Tampa was pretty clearly influenced in part because of his comfort level there and it was absolutely his best chance to win of the teams pursuing him. It's entirely reasonable to suggest that if Stamkos were going to give those things up that he would want something to take its place.

Read your Whitman. Stamkos is large, he contains multitudes.

$39m difference over 7 years?

 

[Kin]

$39m difference over 7 years?

Go big or go home.

 

[Kin]

Hey, you might be asking yourself, has the Colin Kaepernick stuff made its way into hockey?

Don Cherry backs Tortorella, JT Brown doesn't

 

[herman]

Hey, you might be asking yourself, has the Colin Kaepernick stuff made its way into hockey?

Don Cherry backs Tortorella, JT Brown doesn't

Similar to how people react to Trump, it's nice to know where everyone stands on things like racism and being decent people to one another, I guess.

Not to derail it too much, since the article went there, some of the military support Kaepernick's right to protest.

 

[Kin]

Mike Fisher is the new captain in Nashville. Interesting choice on a team full of young stars.