2015 NHL Entry Draft
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bustaheims
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Patrick said:
I suppose that depends on the quality of the other guys left. I don't think he's a bad pick in the 25-30 range, though.
GhostofPotvin29
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bustaheims
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Potvin29 said:
Yeah. Marner is basically the obvious pick if Strome's off the board.
Scott Wheeler, writer for McKeens hockey, chimes in on the Strome vs. Marner debate that Leafs fan have been having:
2015 NHL Draft: Answering the Strome or Marner question
Ultimately, I have and have had Strome ranked slightly ahead of Marner because of the impact of the centre in today?s NHL. This isn?t to say Marner, who is listed as a 5?10" centre can?t be an effective centre at the next level. There are several centres in the NHL, who, at that height, are effective or even dominant. Particularly this year with the emergence of a centre like Tyler Johnson, currently the NHL?s seventh leading scorer.
It?s more a matter of certainty and the tools available to each player. Marner has, in recent games, played more on the wing than at centre and has dominated. And it?s not a matter of sizing either. I have towering forwards like Zacha, Crouse and Roy ranked extremely low because they lack elite offensive upside in a game trending towards the smaller, skilled forward. In recent drafts, I have also stressed skill in my rankings and their corresponding evaluations. Still, if a centre, like Strome, has the elite tools and the size to compliment it, it?s an enticing package.
My scouting reports of the two players:
Dylan Strome, Erie Otters:
Patient with the puck, likes to stop up off the rush and wait for his teammates to get open .. always has his head up and creates for offence for others as well as anyone in the draft, second only to his teammate, Connor McDavid .. doesn?t appear to skate hard or explosively but hangs onto the puck to open up space for others .. high base in his stride limits his explosiveness .. strong positional play allows him to break up passes and anticipate in all three zones .. an elusive release surprises goalies, explodes off of his stick .. follows his shots to the net and frequently gets second opportunities .. one of the better forwards in the defensive zone at the top end of the draft .. excellent stick handler, in tight and when protecting the puck .. passes extremely accurately off of his backhand .. cerebral player with an elite ability to hang onto the puck and control the pace.
Mitch Marner, London Knights:
Slick hands and elite footwork help Marner evade contact in tight .. calm playmaker, one of the most patient players in the class with the puck .. despite a slender appearance on the ice, Marner consistently outsmarts his opponents to beat them .. anticipates the play well which creates spacing when he receives the puck off the rush .. has a tendency to get caught running around in his own zone on a poor defensive team in London .. skates hard and uses his stick to win puck battles .. hard on the backcheck and he comes deep in the defensive zpone to retrieve pucks .. loves to find teammates on his backhand .. played the wing on the powerplay and the majority of the year on a dominant line with Max Domi .. effective on the wing or at centre due to his creativity.
2015 NHL Draft: Answering the Strome or Marner question
Ultimately, I have and have had Strome ranked slightly ahead of Marner because of the impact of the centre in today?s NHL. This isn?t to say Marner, who is listed as a 5?10" centre can?t be an effective centre at the next level. There are several centres in the NHL, who, at that height, are effective or even dominant. Particularly this year with the emergence of a centre like Tyler Johnson, currently the NHL?s seventh leading scorer.
It?s more a matter of certainty and the tools available to each player. Marner has, in recent games, played more on the wing than at centre and has dominated. And it?s not a matter of sizing either. I have towering forwards like Zacha, Crouse and Roy ranked extremely low because they lack elite offensive upside in a game trending towards the smaller, skilled forward. In recent drafts, I have also stressed skill in my rankings and their corresponding evaluations. Still, if a centre, like Strome, has the elite tools and the size to compliment it, it?s an enticing package.
My scouting reports of the two players:
Dylan Strome, Erie Otters:
Patient with the puck, likes to stop up off the rush and wait for his teammates to get open .. always has his head up and creates for offence for others as well as anyone in the draft, second only to his teammate, Connor McDavid .. doesn?t appear to skate hard or explosively but hangs onto the puck to open up space for others .. high base in his stride limits his explosiveness .. strong positional play allows him to break up passes and anticipate in all three zones .. an elusive release surprises goalies, explodes off of his stick .. follows his shots to the net and frequently gets second opportunities .. one of the better forwards in the defensive zone at the top end of the draft .. excellent stick handler, in tight and when protecting the puck .. passes extremely accurately off of his backhand .. cerebral player with an elite ability to hang onto the puck and control the pace.
Mitch Marner, London Knights:
Slick hands and elite footwork help Marner evade contact in tight .. calm playmaker, one of the most patient players in the class with the puck .. despite a slender appearance on the ice, Marner consistently outsmarts his opponents to beat them .. anticipates the play well which creates spacing when he receives the puck off the rush .. has a tendency to get caught running around in his own zone on a poor defensive team in London .. skates hard and uses his stick to win puck battles .. hard on the backcheck and he comes deep in the defensive zpone to retrieve pucks .. loves to find teammates on his backhand .. played the wing on the powerplay and the majority of the year on a dominant line with Max Domi .. effective on the wing or at centre due to his creativity.
Potvin29 said:
I wonder if they take Marner AND Bracco. He might be a more appealing pick if they can get some size first in Strome. Ideally Nashville will lose their division lead and bow out early in the playoffs. If that happens Merkley, Sprong, Harkins, and Svechnikov would all be guys I'd probably prefer to Bracco. Maybe even Beauvillier too, who wasn't in Pronman's top-30. Although he'd likely be quite the home-run pick.
Regardless though, all those players have a lot of upside. Especially for guys going in the 20s.
I'd like to see the Leafs pick up one more 1st rounder to really get me excited about the draft.
With all of the potential bodies they have to move that seems completely doable.
I'd like to see them nab a couple of centres. Either Strome or Marner with their top pick, assuming they miss the lottery. I'd be happy with either.
If they could get another draft pick in the 10-15 range, they might be able to get Pavel Zacha, who may fall even further do to injuries this year. He's a big centre, with skill, who can also play the left side.
For the third pick, there are a few right wingers that stand out in my mind. Two east coasters in Tim Meier in Halifax and Daniel Spronge in Charlottetown, along with two well-rounded Americans in Brock Boeser and Colin White, who also plays centre.
Any of the above high or lower picks, with Zacha in the middle would be a solid draft in my opinion.
With all of the potential bodies they have to move that seems completely doable.
I'd like to see them nab a couple of centres. Either Strome or Marner with their top pick, assuming they miss the lottery. I'd be happy with either.
If they could get another draft pick in the 10-15 range, they might be able to get Pavel Zacha, who may fall even further do to injuries this year. He's a big centre, with skill, who can also play the left side.
For the third pick, there are a few right wingers that stand out in my mind. Two east coasters in Tim Meier in Halifax and Daniel Spronge in Charlottetown, along with two well-rounded Americans in Brock Boeser and Colin White, who also plays centre.
Any of the above high or lower picks, with Zacha in the middle would be a solid draft in my opinion.
Nik the Trik said:
If the Leafs drop to sixth, that would be a disappointment for sure. Probably worst case scenario (I hope) at this stage. Ideally, they will at least finish in the bottom four.
I'd almost be inclined to gamble on Zacha anyway. He was ranked higher before his injury. Has the size and skill set. Some compare to Eric Staal. I just can't see them taking a d-man other than Hanifin if he were still there at 6 (doubtful).
But again, let's hope Carolina comes on and blows by the Leafs. Otherwise, I really think they need to find a way to trade up.
GhostofPotvin29
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Leafs should grab one of the top C available and, failing that, best player available. If you're picking this low and it's not due to trade, you need players at all positions.
L K
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The Leafs really only have Rielly and Nylander in the system as true blue-chip prospects. As much as I love Rielly he's also never going to be able to be that Shea Weber, Ryan Suter or even a Drew Doughty kind of anchor on the blueline. He has the ability to be a special player but he's just not of the same calibre.
The Leafs really need to just draft the best guys available and recognize that it isn't about drafting for positional need. Obviously if you have two equal guys there are things that take priority. Two equal forward, the center is usually a smarter pick. The 6'2 220 lbs guy is probably a stronger pick over the 5'8 150 lbs player, but the Leafs just need to draft talent.
What they can't have happen is become the Oilers where you draft and draft and draft but don't put mentors on the roster to teach the young kids how to play.
The Leafs really need to just draft the best guys available and recognize that it isn't about drafting for positional need. Obviously if you have two equal guys there are things that take priority. Two equal forward, the center is usually a smarter pick. The 6'2 220 lbs guy is probably a stronger pick over the 5'8 150 lbs player, but the Leafs just need to draft talent.
What they can't have happen is become the Oilers where you draft and draft and draft but don't put mentors on the roster to teach the young kids how to play.
Kin
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L K said:
Here's my question there though...how many guys like that does a team need? It's unfair to say the Oilers didn't have any guys like that on the roster. They had Horcoff and Smyth and Hemsky and Gordon and Nick Schultz and Ference over the years.
They paid, some would say overpaid, to get guys like that on the team. So what's the real difference between what they did and what you think the Leafs would need to do?
GhostofPotvin29
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L K said:
I think that was less the Oilers issue than throwing all of the younger players into the league without a lot of further AHL or junior development. In addition, drafting terribly outside of the 1st round.
L K
Active member
Nik the Trik said:
Pacing. They drafted a bunch of guys who had offensive games ready for the NHL but were woefully unprepared defensively. I think veterans play a few roles in terms of player development.
1) They teach. I'm not sure that the Oilers necessarily had the right combination of veterans who were good mentors.
2) They buy you time to allow guys to develop on the farm/juniors.
The Oilers struck me as an organization that was trigger happy to throw their top prospects into the NHL and into prominent roster slots at that.
Kin
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L K said:
To be honest that strikes me as sort of being after the fact autopsy stuff with an awful lot of hindsight involved. Smyth, Gordon and Ference in particular are guys who've had glowing, near-universally positive stuff written about their character and leadership over the years. I maybe buy that some guys probably needed more AHL/Junior time but if that's not "the right mix of veterans" then I think you kind of have to acknowledge that the "right mix of veterans" is something you can't entirely plan for.
I really think their problems have more straightforward answers. The stubborn refusal to not trade down with the Yakupov pick or at least use the Yakupov pick on a defenseman, never solving their goaltending, drafting terribly outside of their top picks, etc, etc.
LuncheonMeat
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L K said:
Nail Yakupov - 0 AHL games - straight from Sarnia to the NHL after just turning 19. And although he put up 17 goals in his first (lockout shortened) season, his shooting percentage was 21% (21%!!!!) that year.
Jordan Eberle - 20 AHL games total over 2 seasons and NHL as a 20-year-old. He had another 35 games d/t the lockout. His numbers are better than Yakupov, but in his second season his shooting percentage was 19% (what's with these guys??)
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Entered the NHL as an 18-year-old straight out of junior. Played 19 AHL games total, but that likely would have been 0 if not for the lockout.
Taylor Hall - again, straight from junior to the NHL as a 18-year-old. He played 26 games in the AHL in his third year, again only because of the lockout.
Talk about throwing your young prospects straight into the fire. I'm sure there are more, but those are the ones that came to mind right off.
Kin
New member
LuncheonMeat said:
See, again though, that list to me reads less as a list of how the Oilers should have given their players more AHL time and more as evidence that they really didn't make good decisions when drafting and the limits of just drafting the best available player.
They lucked out with Eberle a little, finding a really good offensive winger at the #20 spot. Then they drafted Taylor Hall, a really good offensive winger. Then they drafted RNH, a smallish but offensively gifted center. Then they drafted another offensive winger in Yakupov. There's a pattern there and it reads pretty simple.
If they'd drafted Seguin, Landeskog and Ryan Murray instead of Hall, RNH and Yakupov they'd have taken three players who combined have the grand total of zero AHL games between them but who've brought a diverse range of skills to their NHL teams and, I think it's fair to say, the Oilers would be in a significantly better position than they are now.
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