2016 Lead up to the Trade Deadline thread

[CarltonTheBear]

I don't see the Leafs acquiring as much as I thought they would at the trade deadline. At the start of the season with all these expiring contracts they looked poised to cash in at deadline time. No Leaf has been a huge surprise and played themselves into highly sought after commodity. I see only lower picks coming our way unless we trade Komarov. Does anyone see how we could get a 1st or 2nd. Maybe Bozak or Parenteau for a 2nd?

At this point Parenteau, Polak, and Reimer are the big trade chips. The first two should bring back at least a 2nd rounder each. Reimer for a 2nd or 3rd if there's a team out there who needs him. And then hopefully 1 or 2 of Matthias, Grabner, Boyes, or Spaling bring back a pick in the 5-7 round range just to shore up a teams depth. Would have been nice to see Matthias play a little better and get a better pick, but ah well.

 

[Kin]

And, just in general, I think setting your sights on a 1st round pick as a return for any of these guys was never super likely to happen. 1st rounders at the deadline tend to go for pretty solid players, not scrap yard guys.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

And, just in general, I think setting your sights on a 1st round pick as a return for any of these guys was never super likely to happen. 1st rounders at the deadline tend to go for pretty solid players, not scrap yard guys.

You're right, but Franson and Santorelli want a word with you. 

 

[Kin]

You're right, but Franson and Santorelli want a word with you. 

That's what I mean though. When Franson got dealt he was on pace for a 48 point season and had had three pretty good seasons(superficially anyway).

 

[bustaheims]

And, just in general, I think setting your sights on a 1st round pick as a return for any of these guys was never super likely to happen. 1st rounders at the deadline tend to go for pretty solid players, not scrap yard guys.

Yeah. None of the Leafs' rental guys were ever going to be worth a 1st round pick on their own. Maybe as a package, if there's a team that wants Polak and Parenteau, for instance, but certainly not individually. Some of the guys that are under contract past this season? That's a different story, but they're also less likely to be dealt at the deadline.

 

[cabber24]

And, just in general, I think setting your sights on a 1st round pick as a return for any of these guys was never super likely to happen. 1st rounders at the deadline tend to go for pretty solid players, not scrap yard guys.

Yeah. None of the Leafs' rental guys were ever going to be worth a 1st round pick on their own. Maybe as a package, if there's a team that wants Polak and Parenteau, for instance, but certainly not individually. Some of the guys that are under contract past this season? That's a different story, but they're also less likely to be dealt at the deadline.

Yep, it will likely be an under whelming return. Time for Hunter and Dubas to do their homework. I would like to see a focus on the blueline in the draft. I don't want to end up like EDM with all the talent up front and none at the back.

 

[bustaheims]

Yep, it will likely be an under whelming return. Time for Hunter and Dubas to do their homework. I would like to see a focus on the blueline in the draft. I don't want to end up like EDM with all the talent up front and none at the back.

It's only underwhelming if you expected the Leafs to get back more than they ever reasonably were going to be able to get for these guys.

 

[Kin]

Yep, it will likely be an under whelming return. Time for Hunter and Dubas to do their homework. I would like to see a focus on the blueline in the draft. I don't want to end up like EDM with all the talent up front and none at the back.

They drafted 4 defensemen last year, 3 in the 4th round or higher.

 

[cabber24]

Yep, it will likely be an under whelming return. Time for Hunter and Dubas to do their homework. I would like to see a focus on the blueline in the draft. I don't want to end up like EDM with all the talent up front and none at the back.

It's only underwhelming if you expected the Leafs to get back more than they ever reasonably were going to be able to get for these guys.

I don't know, I was kind of buying the whole Dubas analytic expert thing and was hoping some of these one-year signings was going to be a money ball scenario where they would re-cast some missed-cast players and flip these guys for future assets.

 

[cabber24]

Yep, it will likely be an under whelming return. Time for Hunter and Dubas to do their homework. I would like to see a focus on the blueline in the draft. I don't want to end up like EDM with all the talent up front and none at the back.

They drafted 4 defensemen last year, 3 in the 4th round or higher.

Good, I hope some of them stick.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't know, I was kind of buying the whole Dubas analytic expert thing and was hoping some of these one-year signings was going to be a money ball scenario where they would re-cast some missed-cast players and flip these guys for future assets.

And, they will. It's just that those assets were never going to be 1st round pick types. Getting a few extra 2nd and 3rd round picks was always the expectation, and still the likely reality.

 

[cabber24]

I don't know, I was kind of buying the whole Dubas analytic expert thing and was hoping some of these one-year signings was going to be a money ball scenario where they would re-cast some missed-cast players and flip these guys for future assets.

And, they will. It's just that those assets were never going to be 1st round pick types. Getting a few extra 2nd and 3rd round picks was always the expectation, and still the likely reality.

I want more dammit! Our MVPs are suppose to management team. I guess I am not being very patient.

 

[bustaheims]

I want more dammit! Our MVPs are suppose to management team. I guess I am not being very patient.

No, you're not being particularly patient.

But, even with our All Star management team, there's only so much they can do with the players available to them and their value around the league. Guys that would have been worth 1st round picks weren't going to sign one year deals with the Leafs. They would have been valued by teams with a legit shot at the playoffs, and would likely have been offered multi-year deals.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Yep, it will likely be an under whelming return. Time for Hunter and Dubas to do their homework. I would like to see a focus on the blueline in the draft. I don't want to end up like EDM with all the talent up front and none at the back.

They drafted 4 defensemen last year, 3 in the 4th round or higher.

See, it's stuff like the post you quoted that makes following this team online such a chore at times. I mean you and I can disagree about the benefits of adding Stamkos or not, but at the end of the day I respect the fact that yours is a well put together argument.

So many of the voices online are just people just opening their mouths and letting their bellies rumble, there is no fact checking, just noise and grumbling.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

See, it's stuff like the post you quoted that makes following this team online such a chore at times. I mean you and I can disagree about the benefits of adding Stamkos or not, but at the end of the day I respect the fact that yours is a well put together argument.

So many of the voices online are just people just opening their mouths and letting their bellies rumble, there is no fact checking, just noise and grumbling.

It's hardly the worst thing that's been posted here. Our prospect pool is definitely pretty shallow on defence, especially when compared to our forwards. Dermott's likely the only guy you could reasonable say has top-4 potential. There's room for improvement there.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

See, it's stuff like the post you quoted that makes following this team online such a chore at times. I mean you and I can disagree about the benefits of adding Stamkos or not, but at the end of the day I respect the fact that yours is a well put together argument.

So many of the voices online are just people just opening their mouths and letting their bellies rumble, there is no fact checking, just noise and grumbling.

It's hardly the worst thing that's been posted here. Our prospect pool is definitely pretty shallow on defence, especially when compared to our forwards. Dermott's likely the only guy you could reasonable say has top-4 potential. There's room for improvement there.

It's absolutely not the worst and I don't think cabber24 in particular is always guilty of it, but it is so prevalent when reading Leafs stuff online.

As for potential top 4 players, I think Nielsen is pretty similar to Dermott in terms of potential.

Valiev and Percy are still fairly highly regarded too, at least in not knowing definitively where their ceilings are.

Are they certain Corrado and Harrington are only bottom pairing players?

Zaitsev (who is apparently a lock to sign) is he definitely only a bottom pair guy?

Obviously, the team needs to look for top pairing guys through the draft, but at least, acknowledge that they made some attempt/progress at improving their group through the draft already.

 

[Kin]

It's hardly the worst thing that's been posted here. Our prospect pool is definitely pretty shallow on defence, especially when compared to our forwards. Dermott's likely the only guy you could reasonable say has top-4 potential. There's room for improvement there.

I think we'd all like to have more high value D prospects in the system. The only thing I wanted to point out is that the Leafs were certainly already "focusing on it" by drafting 44% defensemen in the last draft which is disproportionately high compared to the 30% of the active roster defensemen make up.

To be unhappy with that result I think you'd have to be arguing specifically for drafting defensemen in the first round and while the Leafs certainly shouldn't rule that out I don't think a team as talent poor as the Leafs were last year should have been drafting for position with the #4 pick.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

It's absolutely not the worst and I don't think cabber24 in particular is always guilty of it, but it is so prevalent when reading Leafs stuff online.

As for potential top 4 players, I think Nielsen is pretty similar to Dermott in terms of potential.

Valiev and Percy are still fairly highly regarded too, at least in not knowing definitively where their ceilings are.

Are they certain Corrado and Harrington are only bottom pairing players?

Zaitsev (who is apparently a lock to sign) is he definitely only a bottom pair guy?

Obviously, the team needs to look for top pairing guys through the draft, but at least, acknowledge that they made some attempt/progress at improving their group through the draft already.

I didn't say anything about a player's ceilings or saying anyone is definitely a bottom pairing guy, I'm saying we should look at this group of prospects through a reasonable lens. Guys like Nielsen and Valiev might have a ceiling of a top-4 defenceman but every NHL team has prospects like them.

This might be harsh but as far as I'm concerned but I'd fairly surprised if Percy became a 200+ game NHL defenceman. Time's running out on him.

Harrington I like but yeah on a good team he's likely tops out as a pretty good bottom pairing guy.

Corrado again is someone that I like but he's likely close to the point where what you see is what you get. Likely more of a good 5-6 guy. He and Harrington would actually form an ice pairing next season I think. I also wasn't really including him as a prospect per-se, Or Zaitsev.

But again, even regardless of all I think even if you were to rank our prospects I'd imagine there would only be one or two defencemen in the top 10-12 prospects. And it's not like the post said "this team hasn't been drafting any defencemen what gives?". It just says that that's an area they'd like to see focused on this year. That's hardly a controversial statement.

And your post seems largely inspired by a belief that the casual online fans aren't knowledgeable enough about the team and therefore their posts are just "noise and grumbling". I mean the prospects on this team that are most recognizable are Nylander, Marner, Brown, and Kapanen. All forwards. I can't fault non-hardcore fans for not knowing enough about Rinat Valiev.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think we'd all like to have more high value D prospects in the system. The only thing I wanted to point out is that the Leafs were certainly already "focusing on it" by drafting 44% defensemen in the last draft which is disproportionately high compared to the 30% of the active roster defensemen make up.

Pointing out their previous draft tendencies was a pretty reasonable response. They did have a focus on defencemen last year, they'll likely have a focus on defencemen again this year. Probably even moreso.

 

[bustaheims]

Pointing out their previous draft tendencies was a pretty reasonable response. They did have a focus on defencemen last year, they'll likely have a focus on defencemen again this year. Probably even moreso.

And, if they somehow end up outside the top 3/4 in the draft, they coudl very well end up taking one with their own 1st round pick. I imagine they'll almost certainly take one with the Pens' pick.