2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition

[herman]

My biggest question mark with Nylander is whether he's ever going to get his will to come anywhere near his skill.  Right now, the biggest separator between Marner and Nylander has been will.  Mind you, its easier to be willing to engage with Torey Krug than it is with Zdeno Chara.

I think this is very well put.

It's pretty frustrating to see how good he can be is limited by how good he chooses to be. He has the physical gifts and skills to absolutely take over a game or a series.

https://twitter.com/jtbourne/status/987144907583209472

Brad Marchand has a misinterpretation of this, but it is absolutely his will combined with his skill that lets him dictate play when he's on the ice (not his stupid stuff). I think it's pretty safe to say Willy is a couple of tiers above Marchand in skill. He's better than Pastrnak (skills-wise) too.

Challenge him. Put a chip on his shoulder.

 

[ZBBM]

As for trading Nylander.  There is no way I'd advocate for trading him just to trade him due to that lack of will right now.  It can come around and I don't want it to come around if he's with another team.  But, if you're asking who would I trade out of the Big 3 to address our defense he's the only guy I'd consider and we'd have to be getting someone really really good back.

If it's a Johansen-for-Jones type trade, I'd consider it sure. If it's Hall-for-Larsson, obviously not. The problem is Nashville was in such a unique situation with their loaded D to make that trade possible for them, and I don't think there's a team out there right now who has a 20-year old future top pairing defenceman that they'd be willing to move for an elite forward. Carolina would be the closest with Hanifin and a) I don't think he's at Nylander's level and b) being a lefty is probably the reason we didn't draft him in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to say we should trade Nylander for help on defence, but it's a lot harder to actually find a deal out there that works.

I completely agree with everything you stated there.  Its going to be really hard to find a deal that would work, and I emphasize that I wouldn't trade him just to trade him.  I'm also not opposed to trading him for an older d-man from a particular team out west that might need to think about rebuilding.  (I highly doubt that's in the cards- but one can dream)

Furthermore, unless we get Tavares next year- he's really our only internal option to play 3C.  I think he'd actually learn to engage MUCH more and test his will throughout the regular season much more playing down the middle.

That's a really good point.  You can't float at C and he is a natural C.

 

[Guilt Trip]

As for trading Nylander, let us not be hasty.  He has been only slightly less effective than Matthews so far.  What we should be considering is whether Matthews is indeed a "generational" talent who has the ability to take over games, or instead just a very very good player.  Which would still be a wonderful thing, mind you.

Take your own advice and pull it back a bit on the generational talent evaluation. He is. He's just struggling right now and it's part of the growing process. Matthews is not the problem here. He wasn't the one making the mistakes last night. Gardiner made the huge mistake last night and then Zaitsev did on the 2 on 1. I think Chara and McAvoy deserve some credit here to. The Bozak line is useless 5 v 5. I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

 

[bustaheims]

I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

 

[L K]

I'm ok with a 1-year, maybe 2-year deal for Thornton but that really doesn't seem like a move that makes the Leafs drastically better and I don't think he's coming to Toronto for a small team friendly contract.

I get breaking the bank for a guy like Tavares because you are getting a guy who can rival Matthews as our best player and it vastly improves the depth of the team simply by being able to ice Tavares/Matthews/Kadri as your top 3 lines and you really can ice hot garbage on the 4th line with that kind of center depth.

 

[Frank E]

I know we have expectations on the kids to find their next levels, but I think some credit needs to go to Chara and McAvoy too. The only times we've scored against them were when Chara fell down and was a non-factor, or was on too long from an icing.

I would have liked to see a stronger effort on the tactics side to overload Chara with speed from the get go.

Or how about scoring goals when Chara and McAvoy aren't on the the ice for the other 38 minutes of the game?

That'd be preferred. If scoring, in general, was easy against the Bruins hurray.

The Bruins have made concerted efforts to remove all our standard scoring plays and we haven't adapted.

For me it's the same as after the first game.  When Matthews and Nylander don't get on the board, through lack of effort or just plain not playing as well as they have during most periods of the year, the Leafs are going to lose on more nights than not.

You think they haven't adapted, and I think they're just not executing.  I was hoping that it would be the opposite, in that they'd find another gear given the playoff pressure. 

Nylander has been particularly ineffective, which many have already pointed out.

Unless the Kadri!

 

[Frank E]

I'm ok with a 1-year, maybe 2-year deal for Thornton but that really doesn't seem like a move that makes the Leafs drastically better and I don't think he's coming to Toronto for a small team friendly contract.

I get breaking the bank for a guy like Tavares because you are getting a guy who can rival Matthews as our best player and it vastly improves the depth of the team simply by being able to ice Tavares/Matthews/Kadri as your top 3 lines and you really can ice hot garbage on the 4th line with that kind of center depth.

I'm all-in on signing Tavares, but they really need to address the RHD situation.

 

[rdowdall]

I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

1. James van Riemsdyk Toronto Maple Leafs UFA 28 LW Left 80 36 18 54 1 14:52
- - - - - $5,000,000 $4,250,000
2. Evander Kane San Jose Sharks UFA 26 LW Left 77 29 25 54 -8 19:23
- - - - - $6,000,000 $5,250,000
3. James Neal Vegas Golden Knights UFA 30 LW, RW Left 70 25 19 44 -7 17:12
- - - - - $5,000,000 $5,000,000
4. Thomas Vanek Columbus Blue Jackets UFA 34 LW, RW Right 79 24 32 56 -2 14:23
- - - - - $2,000,000 $2,000,000
5. Daniel Sedin Vancouver Canucks UFA 37 LW Left 80 23 32 55 -21 15:13
- - - - - $7,000,000 $7,000,000
6. Rick Nash Boston Bruins UFA 33 LW, RW Left 71 21 13 34 -12 16:51
- - - - - $8,200,000 $7,800,000
7. David Perron Vegas Golden Knights UFA 29 LW, RW Right 70 16 50 66 1 17:48
- - - - - $3,750,000 $3,750,000
8. Patrick Maroon New Jersey Devils UFA 29 LW Left 73 16 24 40 0 17:03
- - - - - $2,100,000 $2,000,000
9. Blake Comeau Colorado Avalanche UFA 32 LW, RW Right 78 13 20 33 4 15:53
- - - - - $2,400,000 $2,400,000
10. Chris Kunitz Tampa Bay Lightning UFA 38 LW Left 81 13 15 28 7 11:56
- - - - - $2,000,000 $2,000,000
11. Patrick Sharp Chicago Blackhawks UFA 36 LW, C Right 69 10 11 21 -15 12:50
- - - - - $800,000 $800,000

Here are the right winger UFA's that broke 20:

1. Michael Grabner New Jersey Devils UFA 30 RW, LW Left 79 27 9 36 13 14:43
- - - - - $1,650,000 $1,650,000

One guy that didn't get in to that 20 goal range that might fit the bill is Matt Calvert from Columbus. 

12. Matt Calvert Columbus Blue Jackets UFA 28 LW Left 68 9 15 24 -9 13:21
- - - - - $2,900,000 $2,200,000

 

[herman]

Sign Tavares, and then you can really cheap out on LW. We have internal options to get us part way there.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

I think they look at Kapenan to fill that void next year. I think both him and Johnsson are with the big club. I also think that Aaltonen can be a centre for us.
As for the trading of Nylander. Unless you're getting back a Seth Jones, it isn't happening. We all need to relax here. This is a learning experience. The Matthews line is going up against one of the best D man in the NHL. And McAvoy is no slouch either. Everybody praises Marner and rightfully so but he's not going up against Chara. He also has Reilly on the backend most shifts. Matthews has Gardiner most times and I think if you want to change things up, you put Reilly out with Matthews.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

1. James van Riemsdyk Toronto Maple Leafs UFA 28 LW Left 80 36 18 54 1 14:52
- - - - - $5,000,000 $4,250,000
2. Evander Kane San Jose Sharks UFA 26 LW Left 77 29 25 54 -8 19:23
- - - - - $6,000,000 $5,250,000
3. James Neal Vegas Golden Knights UFA 30 LW, RW Left 70 25 19 44 -7 17:12
- - - - - $5,000,000 $5,000,000
4. Thomas Vanek Columbus Blue Jackets UFA 34 LW, RW Right 79 24 32 56 -2 14:23
- - - - - $2,000,000 $2,000,000
5. Daniel Sedin Vancouver Canucks UFA 37 LW Left 80 23 32 55 -21 15:13
- - - - - $7,000,000 $7,000,000
6. Rick Nash Boston Bruins UFA 33 LW, RW Left 71 21 13 34 -12 16:51
- - - - - $8,200,000 $7,800,000
7. David Perron Vegas Golden Knights UFA 29 LW, RW Right 70 16 50 66 1 17:48
- - - - - $3,750,000 $3,750,000
8. Patrick Maroon New Jersey Devils UFA 29 LW Left 73 16 24 40 0 17:03
- - - - - $2,100,000 $2,000,000
9. Blake Comeau Colorado Avalanche UFA 32 LW, RW Right 78 13 20 33 4 15:53
- - - - - $2,400,000 $2,400,000
10. Chris Kunitz Tampa Bay Lightning UFA 38 LW Left 81 13 15 28 7 11:56
- - - - - $2,000,000 $2,000,000
11. Patrick Sharp Chicago Blackhawks UFA 36 LW, C Right 69 10 11 21 -15 12:50
- - - - - $800,000 $800,000

Here are the right winger UFA's that broke 20:

1. Michael Grabner New Jersey Devils UFA 30 RW, LW Left 79 27 9 36 13 14:43
- - - - - $1,650,000 $1,650,000

One guy that didn't get in to that 20 goal range that might fit the bill is Matt Calvert from Columbus. 

12. Matt Calvert Columbus Blue Jackets UFA 28 LW Left 68 9 15 24 -9 13:21
- - - - - $2,900,000 $2,200,000

I don't want anyone on that list.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

1. James van Riemsdyk Toronto Maple Leafs UFA 28 LW Left 80 36 18 54 1 14:52
- - - - - $5,000,000 $4,250,000
2. Evander Kane San Jose Sharks UFA 26 LW Left 77 29 25 54 -8 19:23
- - - - - $6,000,000 $5,250,000
3. James Neal Vegas Golden Knights UFA 30 LW, RW Left 70 25 19 44 -7 17:12
- - - - - $5,000,000 $5,000,000
4. Thomas Vanek Columbus Blue Jackets UFA 34 LW, RW Right 79 24 32 56 -2 14:23
- - - - - $2,000,000 $2,000,000
5. Daniel Sedin Vancouver Canucks UFA 37 LW Left 80 23 32 55 -21 15:13
- - - - - $7,000,000 $7,000,000
6. Rick Nash Boston Bruins UFA 33 LW, RW Left 71 21 13 34 -12 16:51
- - - - - $8,200,000 $7,800,000
7. David Perron Vegas Golden Knights UFA 29 LW, RW Right 70 16 50 66 1 17:48
- - - - - $3,750,000 $3,750,000
8. Patrick Maroon New Jersey Devils UFA 29 LW Left 73 16 24 40 0 17:03
- - - - - $2,100,000 $2,000,000
9. Blake Comeau Colorado Avalanche UFA 32 LW, RW Right 78 13 20 33 4 15:53
- - - - - $2,400,000 $2,400,000
10. Chris Kunitz Tampa Bay Lightning UFA 38 LW Left 81 13 15 28 7 11:56
- - - - - $2,000,000 $2,000,000
11. Patrick Sharp Chicago Blackhawks UFA 36 LW, C Right 69 10 11 21 -15 12:50
- - - - - $800,000 $800,000

Here are the right winger UFA's that broke 20:

1. Michael Grabner New Jersey Devils UFA 30 RW, LW Left 79 27 9 36 13 14:43
- - - - - $1,650,000 $1,650,000

One guy that didn't get in to that 20 goal range that might fit the bill is Matt Calvert from Columbus. 

12. Matt Calvert Columbus Blue Jackets UFA 28 LW Left 68 9 15 24 -9 13:21
- - - - - $2,900,000 $2,200,000

Rick Nash seems to me, to be someone who fits most of that description.  He's not going to get anywhere near the same cap hit he has now and won't command JvR term and money.  Depends how cheap he can come, but I wouldn't mind Rick Nash on the right contract.  Plays the same net-front presence on the PP (not quite as good), but is better at 5v5- specifically defensively.

That said, I think we may already have our replacement in Johnsson.  He's definitely not JvR, but he's ready for a 3rd line role or better.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Rick Nash seems to me, to be someone who fits most of that description.  He's not going to get anywhere near the same cap hit he has now and won't command JvR term and money.  Depends how cheap he can come, but I wouldn't mind Rick Nash on the right contract.  Plays the same net-front presence on the PP (not quite as good), but is better at 5v5- specifically defensively.

That said, I think we may already have our replacement in Johnsson.  He's definitely not JvR, but he's ready for a 3rd line role or better.

No thanks on Nash. I think he's done. He's got 1 point so far against the Leafs. I don't even notice him out on the ice. I think Johnsson and or Kaps will be used more next year. Aaltonen I think was their centre on the Marlies....maybe they can be our 3rd/4th line next year???

 

[bustaheims]

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

They're not limited to the UFA market. There will be some trade options available that won't come with a huge asset cost.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Rick Nash seems to me, to be someone who fits most of that description.  He's not going to get anywhere near the same cap hit he has now and won't command JvR term and money.  Depends how cheap he can come, but I wouldn't mind Rick Nash on the right contract.  Plays the same net-front presence on the PP (not quite as good), but is better at 5v5- specifically defensively.

That said, I think we may already have our replacement in Johnsson.  He's definitely not JvR, but he's ready for a 3rd line role or better.

No thanks on Nash. I think he's done. He's got 1 point so far against the Leafs. I don't even notice him out on the ice. I think Johnsson and or Kaps will be used more next year. Aaltonen I think was their centre on the Marlies....maybe they can be our 3rd/4th line next year???

I'm not advocating for Nash at all.  I just think he's the only one on that list who could be your 3rd line LW/PP net front guy ala JvR.

I think we have enough Top 9 NHL wingers (LW:  Marleau, Johnsson, Hyman  RW:  Marner, Kapanen, Brown) and that's with Nylander at 3C.  If we sign a 3C, then you've got a Top 9 winger playing on the 4th line again as Nylander would push someone down.

 

[mr grieves]

I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

I think you're missing Kovalchuk...

 

[sickbeast]

If the Leafs had a good playoff run and JVR had been instrumental, then yes I would have said there was a good chance he would come back.  But the way things are looking now, he's gone.  They need some extra cap space to pay Matthews/Marner/Nylander.

I view Bozak as extremely replaceable and I'm not a big fan of his.  It's great that Burke got him for nothing, but at this point I think the organization should move on.  Maybe a one year "show me" contract for the right kind of player.  The Leafs have some cap space to work with next season but after that it's gone.

 

[Zee]

If the Leafs had a good playoff run and JVR had been instrumental, then yes I would have said there was a good chance he would come back.  But the way things are looking now, he's gone.  They need some extra cap space to pay Matthews/Marner/Nylander.

I view Bozak as extremely replaceable and I'm not a big fan of his.  It's great that Burke got him for nothing, but at this point I think the organization should move on.  Maybe a one year "show me" contract for the right kind of player.  The Leafs have some cap space to work with next season but after that it's gone.

This summer will be interesting. If they get Tavares your top 3 centers are set and you're just in need of a 4th, I'm sure they'll be journeymen centers out there like Dom Moore who could fit that role, or else try internally with Altonen maybe.

If no Tavares then you'll need 2 centers.

I agree with letting JVR go, replacements are internal already with Johnsson and Kapanen getting bigger roles.

 

[Coco-puffs]

If no Tavares then you'll need 2 centers.

I guess you don't want Nylander playing Center?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Our 3rd centre next season will be Tavares, Thornton, or Nylander. You can take that to the bank.

They'll try for the first two, and if they strike out it'll be Willie.