2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion

[princedpw]

While I?m semi on that train of thought, is it not fair to characterize John Tavares as the older, slower, smaller, more boring, and less flashy Auston Matthews?

except for the smaller part, that kinda drscribes the goat too.

Implicit is the prolific scoring bit that the Goat currently does not possess.

joking

 

[ZBBM]

And that's why several teams were ready to pay him more than $11m to keep on failing.

Hold on a sec, I'm looking up my latin to find out how to describe the "Appealing to the Wisdom of NHL teams' spending habits on the UFA market" fallacy.

And I'll stand by for your ruggedly idiosyncratic explanation of why Tavares is a failure.  I'll give you credit, though, you were the only one on this board who vehemently denounced the signing back on July 1.  It's not easy to swim against the tide of opinion, especially when it's near-unanimous.

 

[Kin]

And I'll stand by for your ruggedly idiosyncratic explanation of why Tavares is a failure.  I'll give you credit, though, you were the only one on this board who vehemently denounced the signing back on July 1.  It's not easy to swim against the tide of opinion, especially when it's near-unanimous.

Well, ok, I'm open to the idea of putting on a production of The Wiz and your post is a good start on the casting but who will we get for the Tin Man and the Lion?

 

[ZBBM]

And I'll stand by for your ruggedly idiosyncratic explanation of why Tavares is a failure.  I'll give you credit, though, you were the only one on this board who vehemently denounced the signing back on July 1.  It's not easy to swim against the tide of opinion, especially when it's near-unanimous.

Well, ok, I'm open to the idea of putting on a production of The Wiz and your post is a good start on the casting but who will we get for the Tin Man and the Lion?

Matthews and Tavares, duh.  Marner obviously didn't cut it the other night.

 

[Kin]

I like Tavares for the Tin Man because we can oil all of his rings and trophies.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Boy, if there's one player/franchise in the modern NHL that has ever deserved separation of team success and his own contribution, it's John Tavares and the Islanders.

 

[Kin]

Boy, if there's one player/franchise in the modern NHL that has ever deserved separation of team success and his own contribution, it's John Tavares and the Islanders.

I don't think it necessarily follows that saying a guy hasn't had a ton of success is also blaming him for that, just acknowledging it as a reality. Tavares certainly isn't the reason the Islanders weren't good but they weren't good.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Tavares certainly isn't the reason the Islanders weren't good but they weren't good.

Agreed. So what's the relevance of bringing up his involvement in their lack of success if you concede he wasn't the reason?

 

[dappleganger]

Gretzky was wholly unsuccessful without Messier.

 

[Kin]

Agreed. So what's the relevance of bringing up his involvement in their lack of success if you concede he wasn't the reason?

Well, within this context it was the use of Tavares' supposed track record of "success" to differentiate him from Matthews. If all is meant by "success" is that Tavares has been a good NHL player for longer than Matthews has then that was already covered by saying that Tavares is older than Matthews and seems fairly meaningless as a distinction between the two(especially considering that Matthews has won an individual trophy where Tavares hasn't and taken his team to the playoffs in both of his seasons).

 

[Deebo]

Ennis has a broken ankle, now we will probably see a call up.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Ennis has a broken ankle, now we will probably see a call up.

That's really too bad for him. I think he's kind of resurrected his career here. Depending on who comes up, he may have a hard time getting back into the lineup.

 

[Zee]

Ennis has a broken ankle, now we will probably see a call up.

That's really too bad for him. I think he's kind of resurrected his career here. Depending on who comes up, he may have a hard time getting back into the lineup.

I'd like to see them give both Moore and Grundstrom a look, who knows how long Hyman is out too. Sit the Goat down.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Ennis has a broken ankle, now we will probably see a call up.

That's really too bad for him. I think he's kind of resurrected his career here. Depending on who comes up, he may have a hard time getting back into the lineup.

I'd like to see them give both Moore and Grundstrom a look, who knows how long Hyman is out too. Sit the Goat down.

Agreed. I think both deserve a shot but depending on the role I wouldn't mind seeing Marchment too.

 

[Zee]

Ennis has a broken ankle, now we will probably see a call up.

That's really too bad for him. I think he's kind of resurrected his career here. Depending on who comes up, he may have a hard time getting back into the lineup.

I'd like to see them give both Moore and Grundstrom a look, who knows how long Hyman is out too. Sit the Goat down.

Agreed. I think both deserve a shot but depending on the role I wouldn't mind seeing Marchment too.

I envision:

Grundstrom-Kadri-Nylander
Moore-Lindholm-Brown

as the 3rd and 4th lines tomorrow. It's only 1 game before the break and it's only Detroit. Why not?

(Can flip Moore and Grundstrom but I think him and Kadri together could be pretty good sandpaper)

 

[Deebo]

If I had to bet, Moore for Ennis will be the only will be only change to the line-up other than Sparks getting the start.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Ennis has a broken ankle, now we will probably see a call up.

That's really too bad for him. I think he's kind of resurrected his career here. Depending on who comes up, he may have a hard time getting back into the lineup.

I'd like to see them give both Moore and Grundstrom a look, who knows how long Hyman is out too. Sit the Goat down.

Agreed. I think both deserve a shot but depending on the role I wouldn't mind seeing Marchment too.

I envision:

Grundstrom-Kadri-Nylander
Moore-Lindholm-Brown

as the 3rd and 4th lines tomorrow. It's only 1 game before the break and it's only Detroit. Why not?

(Can flip Moore and Grundstrom but I think him and Kadri together could be pretty good sandpaper)

Wouldn't mind seeing those lines. Gauthier needs to be waived. Nice kid and all but zero offence means he shouldn't be in the NHL.

 

[herman]

If I had to bet, Moore for Ennis will be the only will be only change to the line-up other than Sparks getting the start.

Might be Holl coming in for Marincin if Oz is still not ready.

 

[Zee]

If I had to bet, Moore for Ennis will be the only will be only change to the line-up other than Sparks getting the start.

You're probably right but why not give a few different lineup looks. Leafs have to see what they have in the minors and if they can replace higher paid guys like Brown and Hyman. Leafs need to constantly turn out guys that can play on ELCs going forward when the cap crunch comes. Perfect situation to try more than 1 guy tonight.

 

[Kin]

You're probably right but why not give a few different lineup looks. Leafs have to see what they have in the minors and if they can replace higher paid guys like Brown and Hyman.

I think the easy answer there is that I think the Leafs would probably say there's not a ton you're going to find out about "what you have" by giving Bracco or Grundstrom or whoever a few games in the NHL in a minor role that you aren't already learning by watching them in much larger roles on the Marlies night after night.

For better or worse, this management team has been pretty consistent in bringing guys up from the Marlies when they think they're ready and then leaving them around for good. Nylander, Dermott, Gauthier, your buddy Johnsson...they probably felt pretty confident in assessing them in the minors.

So for now you might as well give someone like Moore, who's very questionable as a "prospect" at best, a solid run of things if you think he's the best option to seamlessly fit into the lineup.