2021-2022 NHL Thread
- Thread starter Kin
- Start date
What's incredible is that's an article from 3 years ago.
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
https://twitter.com/NYIslanders/status/1484723889364164609
Guilt Trip
Active member
I hope it was a misunderstanding. As for being sincere, I don't know Panetta so unless you do, we have no idea. His greetings and family would know better.....Significantly Insignificant said:
https://torontosun.com/sports/traikos-maybe-jordan-subban-wasnt-the-victim-of-a-racial-gesture-but-thats-not-the-point?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1643070477
herman said:
I've been here for a while, even though my post count may not show it. I've been coming here since before the first lockout in 2005. I remember the hay days of Eklund and Code and people discussing the crazy rumours. Not sure I know the TBLeafer reference however as my memory on some things is a little fuzzy.
Guilt Trip said:
Sincere is probably not the word I should have chosen there. I guess I just meant if you believed his story that he didn't mean for it to be racially motivated, because he has done it a bunch of other times to other players.
That's a good link and I will give it a read.
Guilt Trip
Active member
I don't remember, please refresh..herman said:
Guilt Trip
Active member
I'm lead to believe he is telling the truth. It's not in the article but on Traikos' twitter feed that he has the support of his coaches and teammates. Like I said I hope it's a misunderstanding that will become a learning point and everyone will continue with their careers.Significantly Insignificant said:
Guilt Trip said:
I think that's the thing. I hope that if this was the sort of thing that he did before, which is kind of stupid, then he gets a chance to play again and learn not to do this again. Reminds me of this story:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html
Guilt Trip
Active member
No he shouldn't be punished if there wasn't intent. I think both players involved can be victims here.Significantly Insignificant said:
herman
Well-known member
Significantly Insignificant said:
The slippery slope here is interpreting intent at all, rather than just the impact. Who do you think determines what is considered a racist remark/gesture: the person taking that action, or the person receiving it?
Here's the point I was bringing up about that previous poster. He casually used a derogatory term with no apparent ill intent. People rightly called him out and he doubled/tripled down that it was just normal vernacular in his industry. He eventually recognized he was defending a point of ignorance.
The point of pieces like Traiko's is to centre the conversation not on the actual issue of how hockey culture seems to make it seem acceptable for racist/sexist rhetoric/gestures, but on Zapruder-film analysis of a specific incident to absolve this poor innocent boy with dreams of playing the good old hockey game who was misunderstood and is now being ruined by cancel culture.
Perhaps we should listen instead to all the players of colour who have endured years of racial abuse and had to swallow their tongue for fear of rocking the boat and getting shuttled to nowheresville because coaches would say they have attitude issues and are uncoachable (wow look, an actual systemic cancel culture).
Kin
New member
herman said:
Yeah, I'm with Herman here. Parsing intent seems kind of ridiculous if what you're left with is "I didn't know that my gesture at a black player would be seen as racist abuse". Like, at some point it's incumbent on a player to know that stuff for himself and ignorance isn't an excuse.
I think too often the people who get reflexively defensive about incidents like this look at racism just as this sort of binary the perpetrator must effectively be a member of a hate group for his words or actions to have actual racial animus and falling short of that standard there's no real culpability. But if you're going to be a functioning adult in our society it's somewhat incumbent on you to understand that the same gesture/offensive remark can have vary different contexts depending on who it's aimed at.
herman
Well-known member
Everyone's a product of their environment in some respects. Members of that environment who are in a privileged and empowered position are generally going to resist changes that are perceived to diminish their standing: why change what's normal and accepted and comfortable (but only for them specifically)? The Blackhawks org sweeping gross misconduct allegations under the rug, Bill Peters lasting as long as he did in coaching NHL teams, Toronto Sun shills leaping to the defense of Panetta and Quenneville, Akim Aliu getting exiled for standing up to racist bullying, is all the same conversation.
Bullfrog
Active member
herman said:
I agree except that I'm having trouble with this part. I've learned a lot about myself (including my own biases) and those of others and the importance of intent vs impact (and I've been on the receiving end.) But it also took until my 30s to start to have a real understanding of these things. I used to struggle with the word "privilege" and what it really meant. Same with "racist" and "racism." But I'm learning -- actively (taking courses/workshops/having conversations, etc.)
These issues are obviously of great importance to you and they should be to everyone. But I think there's some nuance that gets ignored. Panetta is a relatively young man playing in a competitive sports league. While it doesn't matter, I found his response to be genuine.....sincere. While you're absolutely correct that the impact is what's important, I find some of the responses to be dismissive of someone like Panetta; demonizing even.
People are calling for his indefinite suspension; some even for a permanent ban from professional hockey. Is this how we want to teach people?
I don't know Panetta; I don't know Subban. Panetta might be a completely racist douchebag, or he might be a sincere young man who truly regrets -- and has learned from -- this event.
Panetta, like me, likely doesn't understand the impact of these gestures (ill-intentioned or not) as he hasn't experienced life as a black person in white-dominated hockey culture.
I'm not being dismissive nor am I defensive; I think Nik's response about culpability and ignorance is well-articulated.