• For users coming over from tmlfans.ca your username will remain the same but you will need to use the password reset feature (check your spam folder) on the login page in order to set your password. If you encounter issues, email Rick couchmanrick@gmail.com

2023-24 NHL Thread

CarltonTheBear said:
Frank E said:
Like, NFT's are very 2021 right?
Click to expand...

Yeah NFT's were crashing, and crashing hard, even when the league first announced this project in 2022. They got into it way late, much later than the other big sports, and decided to stay the course even when it was clearly a sinking ship.
Click to expand...

Having your core authority owners all be 60+ and Bettman at 71.  The NHL has a massive "not cool" element to their organization.  The cost to play hockey is always going to be a barrier to being the top sport.  The need for arenas and ice is going to limit certain environments from having wide appeal for local participation.

But the NHL doesn't know how to market to todays generation.  Everything they do just comes across stupid and half thought out.  They need a massive restructuring on how they market the game.
 
L K said:
Having your core authority owners all be 60+ and Bettman at 71.  The NHL has a massive "not cool" element to their organization.  The cost to play hockey is always going to be a barrier to being the top sport.  The need for arenas and ice is going to limit certain environments from having wide appeal for local participation.

But the NHL doesn't know how to market to todays generation.  Everything they do just comes across stupid and half thought out.  They need a massive restructuring on how they market the game.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's not like the other leagues have owners who are a bunch of hip young dudes with young commissioners.

I think right now the problem is inherent in the sport. Football is so popular the game markets itself. Basketball has a ton of shoes to sell so Nike/Adidas/Reebok are doing most of the marketing for them. Baseball and Hockey right now basically have the same problem which is that the sports are becoming increasingly niche, they don't have partners like Nike who need to move product and, probably worse at all, there are cultures within the sport itself that actively discourages players from showing individual personality. Like, I don't care how old Bettman is, the youngest and most engaged Gen-Z'er couldn't come up with marketing that turned Connor McDavid or Mike Trout into interesting people.

I'm not saying you're wrong, exactly, but it's not an easy fix here. Yes, they probably need to stop tripping over their own genitals like they did with the pride tape but even then the NHL was dealing with the sad reality that probably a fair number of their players were more on the Staal/Provorov side of things than they'd like to admit.
 
herman said:
Nik said:
Yes, they probably need to stop tripping over their own genitals
Click to expand...

It is very good to see you still around, Nik. I chortled into my lunch very hard.
Click to expand...

It is funny how not being able to swear forces you to say somethings that, somehow, sound dirtier than the alternative.
 
Nik said:
L K said:
Having your core authority owners all be 60+ and Bettman at 71.  The NHL has a massive "not cool" element to their organization.  The cost to play hockey is always going to be a barrier to being the top sport.  The need for arenas and ice is going to limit certain environments from having wide appeal for local participation.

But the NHL doesn't know how to market to todays generation.  Everything they do just comes across stupid and half thought out.  They need a massive restructuring on how they market the game.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's not like the other leagues have owners who are a bunch of hip young dudes with young commissioners.

I think right now the problem is inherent in the sport. Football is so popular the game markets itself. Basketball has a ton of shoes to sell so Nike/Adidas/Reebok are doing most of the marketing for them. Baseball and Hockey right now basically have the same problem which is that the sports are becoming increasingly niche, they don't have partners like Nike who need to move product and, probably worse at all, there are cultures within the sport itself that actively discourages players from showing individual personality. Like, I don't care how old Bettman is, the youngest and most engaged Gen-Z'er couldn't come up with marketing that turned Connor McDavid or Mike Trout into interesting people.

I'm not saying you're wrong, exactly, but it's not an easy fix here. Yes, they probably need to stop tripping over their own genitals like they did with the pride tape but even then the NHL was dealing with the sad reality that probably a fair number of their players were more on the Staal/Provorov side of things than they'd like to admit.
Click to expand...

Nice to have you back!

And sure, it's not just an issue of everyone being old, but it's old AND out of touch.  Nothing about the NHL (and this falls all the way back to the players themselves) does a good job of showing off personality and the kind of thing that gets flashy social media views.

Connor McDavid is never going to be Mr. Personality.  He might be fun behind closed doors but in front of the media McDavid is someone who sucks.  I think you can get that kind of marketing from the Hughes brothers, Tkachuk, etc. and the league needs to do a better job of promoting that. 

I still think the bigger concern the NHL had was that there was too large of a conservative fanbase that would be upset by embracing the gay more than the players.
 
NFTs -- a stupid concept then, and an even stupider one now.  The only thing more stupid than them are the people who pay (big) money for them.
 
L K said:
Connor McDavid is never going to be Mr. Personality.  He might be fun behind closed doors but in front of the media McDavid is someone who sucks.  I think you can get that kind of marketing from the Hughes brothers, Tkachuk, etc. and the league needs to do a better job of promoting that. 
Click to expand...

I mean, I've seen Matthew Tkachuk give interviews and really the closest any of these guys have to what we'd call a personality is a sort of pale imitation of the Pat McAfee/Spittin' Chiclets Bro Culture that I don't really think works for the kind of marketing you're talking about. These guys just aren't cool. They're the guys in the movie who ends up covered in a milkshake while the nerd makes out with the head cheerleader.

But even say for a minute they had the sizzle. I still think you're missing the larger structural issue of what happens when you try to sell the steak. Love Matthew Tkachuk? Think he's a really exciting guy? Well why not buy a ticket where he'll play 1/3 of the game and he averages being involved in 1.3 scoring plays per night and maybe fights 6 or 7 times a year. That isn't the same thing as Basketball where Giannis is doing 15 exciting things a night or football where Patrick Mahomes is on the field and making something happen every offensive play. The most exciting charismatic guy in the NHL is still a guy who's not playing most of the game and can't make a team good by himself.

I know people hate to hear it and I don't like saying it because it doesn't make me feel good but people liked fighting. People liked Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em kind of hits. I think it's great that the game is safer but you can't get away from the fact that on those 3rd/4th lines you're replacing selling Domi vs. Probert with some speedy Czechs and Latvians who don't have much in the way of hands but, oh boy, what a cycle game.

And that's the real thing. The NHL used to sell teams. The Habs, the Oilers, Penguins. Even if your team sucked, they were fun to watch. Then they decided that, for their financial stability, it was important that all teams were as tightly bunched together talent wise as possible. Now every team is fielding mediocre players for at least 30 minutes a night. What's the big marquee matchup you'd tell a casual fan to watch right now? Vegas vs. Boston? What's the sport's last champion in a big, hockey crazy market? Probably the Blackhawks which is going on 8 years now. The league can't on the one hand be like "It's crucial for the future of the sport that Carolina and Ottawa are on even terms with Toronto and New York" and then turn around and wonder where the fans are at when that's exactly what they get. 

I know people like to bag on Bettman and, believe me, I'm blaming him for the whole trajectory of the sport here but he's smart enough to know to hire a young and hip marketing firm. I just don't think they can come back with anything meaningful given what they're trying to make appealing. NFTs are stupid, sure, but that reeks of scraping the bottom of a well scraped barrel.
 
As I may have mentioned before I used to be involved with the media aside of things over here and often got to interview players.

It was quite stark when interviewing guys who had been part of NHL or even played a high level of Canadian junior in how they interviewed. Really obvious the impact of media training. Guys who?d come through locally or maybe not made it that high up the chain were a lot more likely to give a good soundbyte or even say something they maybe shouldn?t.

There was one guy in particular, you?d either meet up with him or call him and he was great to chat to, clearly deeply knowledgable about the game, have great comments on hockey and even outside hockey things in general conversation. As soon as you hit the record button or went ?formal? he just turned into a cliche machine. Clipped single word or sentence answers followed by awkward dead air. It was incredible.

Then after you?d stop, thank him for his time and boom he was chatty again.

He was an extreme case but there was a lot of that to various extents.
 
Nik said:
... Like, I don't care how old Bettman is, the youngest and most engaged Gen-Z'er couldn't come up with marketing that turned Connor McDavid or Mike Trout into interesting people.
...
Click to expand...

He really is one of the most boring greatest players of all time. Even Crosby is more interesting.
 
Bullfrog said:
Nik said:
... Like, I don't care how old Bettman is, the youngest and most engaged Gen-Z'er couldn't come up with marketing that turned Connor McDavid or Mike Trout into interesting people.
...
Click to expand...

He really is one of the most boring greatest players of all time. Even Crosby is more interesting.
Click to expand...
I can't remember where I watched it but he gave a tour of his house and he was so painfully awkward and even his house was so bland and empty. It was a tough watch.
 
So I actually tried to throw on the Sens/Wings game from Sweden that's currently happening - it's regionally blacked out so you have to be in the Sens region to watch.  The NHL just knows how to take loss after loss.
 
Zee said:
So I actually tried to throw on the Sens/Wings game from Sweden that's currently happening - it's regionally blacked out so you have to be in the Sens region to watch.  The NHL just knows how to take loss after loss.
Click to expand...

Ya my move to BC is a double edge sword hockey wise.  Games starting at 4PM is great, however so many games blacked out even when Van not playing just doesn't make sense especially as the sports packages are not cheap..
 
Nik said:
L K said:
Connor McDavid is never going to be Mr. Personality.  He might be fun behind closed doors but in front of the media McDavid is someone who sucks.  I think you can get that kind of marketing from the Hughes brothers, Tkachuk, etc. and the league needs to do a better job of promoting that. 
Click to expand...

...

And that's the real thing. The NHL used to sell teams. The Habs, the Oilers, Penguins. Even if your team sucked, they were fun to watch. Then they decided that, for their financial stability, it was important that all teams were as tightly bunched together talent wise as possible. Now every team is fielding mediocre players for at least 30 minutes a night. What's the big marquee matchup you'd tell a casual fan to watch right now? Vegas vs. Boston? What's the sport's last champion in a big, hockey crazy market? Probably the Blackhawks which is going on 8 years now. The league can't on the one hand be like "It's crucial for the future of the sport that Carolina and Ottawa are on even terms with Toronto and New York" and then turn around and wonder where the fans are at when that's exactly what they get. 

...
Click to expand...

If you're after a clash of the best teams, then yeah, Vegas vs Boston is a pretty good place to start.

Way back in Moneyball, the thing that let the Oakland A's be an innovative team by acting on strategies that had been around since the 70s was the insight that selling on star power was one dimensional. If you want to sell your product, you have to win. If the Oilers suck, then Connor McDavid won't save you. If you win, then your 3rd line grinders get big contracts at Free Agency and the fans are actually sad to see them go.

Expansion doesn't prevent marketing the sport (it should enhance the capability... they have expanded the market). The NHL just aren't really interested in doing it.
 
To be clear, I'm not blaming expansion. I'm blaming the cap.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what the distinction is between selling star players vs. winning unless there's a mechanism in place like the cap where having star players makes it harder for a team to win. The best teams of all time were star driven.
 
Zee said:
So I actually tried to throw on the Sens/Wings game from Sweden that's currently happening - it's regionally blacked out so you have to be in the Sens region to watch.  The NHL just knows how to take loss after loss.
Click to expand...

Since the NHL ESPN contract started my streaming access to games has been so much worse than it was before. The new streaming option in the US just doesn?t give me very many Leafs games. It is like ESPN paid the NHL to not broadcast tons of games to their fans.  This seems so bad for NHL fans and conversely, for the NHL. What kind of league makes it so hard to see their games legally?
 
princedpw said:
Zee said:
So I actually tried to throw on the Sens/Wings game from Sweden that's currently happening - it's regionally blacked out so you have to be in the Sens region to watch.  The NHL just knows how to take loss after loss.
Click to expand...

Since the NHL ESPN contract started my streaming access to games has been so much worse than it was before. The new streaming option in the US just doesn?t give me very many Leafs games. It is like ESPN paid the NHL to not broadcast tons of games to their fans.  This seems so bad for NHL fans and conversely, for the NHL. What kind of league makes it so hard to see their games legally?
Click to expand...

In the UK we have the NHL TV app. It?s really well priced.

But the NHL also has a deal with Viaplay TV channel. Any game they show is blacked out for 48 hours. They generally show 2 games per day.

They also have virtually no subscribers and are trying to quit the UK market.

So if you want to watch all games you actually need 2 subscriptions.

Or an illegal iptv that costs less for a year than the above subscriptions do for a month.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

About Us

This website is NOT associated with the Toronto Maple Leafs or the NHL.


It is operated by Rick Couchman and Jeff Lewis.
Back
Top