azzurri63
Well-known member
Which means they couldn't trade him without his consent correct.
2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
bustaheims
Well-known member
Only for the 9 teams on his list. Not for the other 22 teams that could have negotiated a trade with Carolina.
Kaberle15
Well-known member
If you want to look at the Silver lining, they pushed the team that was in back to back finals, current champs to game 7.
Seth Jones and Marchand basically killed the Leafs yesteday, Jones with great positional plays, closing the gap, helping the forecheck and lead their way to the victory. And the rat is someone that I would sign up just to stop him from eliminate the Leafs every year.
Shanahan is probably gone, so we can expect some changes.
This core must change, but why would the lose Marner for free ? They should find comon ground and not give him full NMC. Marner's value is high in the league and Leafs could bring out some great pieces in return.
Tavares will probably be gone, Marner is probable going for free (and will hurt the team even more) , Knies needs to be resigned.
The toughest part is knowing that this team needed a Ryan O'Reilly type of player that they had it and weren't able to resign. They need an equivalent of Gary Roberts to take them to the next level.
Colorado is also without a game 7 win in the recent years (7 straight losses in game 7, the difference is their Cup) and perhaps both Teams can benefit from a Star trade (sign and trade Marner)
Anyway, this will be an interesting off season.
Seth Jones and Marchand basically killed the Leafs yesteday, Jones with great positional plays, closing the gap, helping the forecheck and lead their way to the victory. And the rat is someone that I would sign up just to stop him from eliminate the Leafs every year.
Shanahan is probably gone, so we can expect some changes.
This core must change, but why would the lose Marner for free ? They should find comon ground and not give him full NMC. Marner's value is high in the league and Leafs could bring out some great pieces in return.
Tavares will probably be gone, Marner is probable going for free (and will hurt the team even more) , Knies needs to be resigned.
The toughest part is knowing that this team needed a Ryan O'Reilly type of player that they had it and weren't able to resign. They need an equivalent of Gary Roberts to take them to the next level.
Colorado is also without a game 7 win in the recent years (7 straight losses in game 7, the difference is their Cup) and perhaps both Teams can benefit from a Star trade (sign and trade Marner)
Anyway, this will be an interesting off season.
My silver lining is Shanhahan is gone and the org now has a lot of data points vs. say a team like Vegas in the need to be ruthless in pursuit of winning. Its like we recreated the Muskoka 5 for a new generation. No more niceties. You want to take the team to the mat in negotiation and squeeze every last dime? You're gone.
Zee
Well-known member
It’s easy to say in theory, but when the pressure’s on, will they actually have a GM with the guts to make the tough calls? Especially in Toronto, where you’ve got friends of ownership pulling strings, media leaks pushing certain narratives, and far too many voices in the room. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
Shanahan did a solid job laying the foundation from 2014 to 2018, but after that, he became fixated on proving his vision was right—regardless of mounting evidence to the contrary. It’s now clear why Dubas was let go: he was ready to move on from Marner before the no-move clause kicked in, and Shanahan wouldn’t allow it. Two years later, we’re staring down the barrel of losing Marner for nothing. That’s just brutal management.
4EVRLEAFAN
Active member
Zee
Well-known member
Tavares was signed before Marner’s six-year deal, and ironically, it was playing alongside Tavares that helped drive Marner’s price up. I’m talking specifically about the summer Dubas was fired, I truly believe he was finally ready to make a significant move, and Marner was the obvious choice since he didn’t yet have trade protection. But it never happened. And now here we are, on the verge of losing Mitch for nothing but cap space.
Ozzie
Well-known member
The beginning of the end was hiring a first time GM (Dubas)....who hired a first time coach (Dubas' yes man Keefe).....and over paying for a forward that never won more than 5 games in the playoffs and was more of the same of the three forward stallions they already had......great hands but lacking grit (Tavares). They didn't need Tavares. They needed to put that money to goaltending and blue line and depth.
Once the bar was set with Tavares UFA acquisition..... the agents of these young forward stallions wanted just as much or more as Tavares and everything went to shit. I think it was this salary watermark that hurt the Matthews Era the most. While the Canadiens and Avalanche and Florida have kept salaries in check, Dubas negotiated bad deals. And they set the watermark for years because every year Leafs will have 3 guys in the top 10 paid in the NHL.....for a 32 team league is preposturous.
Its down to ownership and management that f@cked this up.
Once the bar was set with Tavares UFA acquisition..... the agents of these young forward stallions wanted just as much or more as Tavares and everything went to shit. I think it was this salary watermark that hurt the Matthews Era the most. While the Canadiens and Avalanche and Florida have kept salaries in check, Dubas negotiated bad deals. And they set the watermark for years because every year Leafs will have 3 guys in the top 10 paid in the NHL.....for a 32 team league is preposturous.
Its down to ownership and management that f@cked this up.
Ozzie
Well-known member
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
azzurri63
Well-known member
Bang on. I've said it multiple times back then how much I hated Dubas' overpayments for exactly what you said guys that hadn't won anything. I liked the JT signing back then because we added a guy for nothing but cash. Was it a lot. That was the going price if not us would have been someone else. He put in his time and got the big contract. The 3 young stars to me were all overpaid and when Nylander held out I would have let him go but no Dubas paid him what he wanted after sitting out 2 months. We never played hardball with any of the big 3. They've ran the ship here since day 1. I'm not an expert in salary cap, tax implications etc but don't be surprised if Marner signs for less somewhere else.
Ozzie
Well-known member
Can't put any of that on Treliving. He was new to an organization and you're expecting him to pound his fist to first convince ownership and then get a trade done within weeks of arrival to move the darling of ownership/Shanahan?
Everyone of us have started a new job before. Leafs are institutional and its not reasonable for Treliving to come in like a bull in a China shop.
The misfire was on Ownership/Shanahan/Dubas..... in 2021. ....and 2022 and part of 2023.
Is there anyone in this Forum that didn't know what Marner was about by spring 2021? Because if you didn't know for sure then..... I guess you know for sure now.
I hated the JT signing at the time. We weren’t ready to compete. This sent us down a false road of trading assets every deadline. We should have been developing assets at this time, not trading them. Dubas being rookie showed by paying completely off the charts and rookie coach Keefe got out coached annually come playoff time. I agree with your comments. I hope Shannan is gone.
mr grieves
Active member
I think that's what goes on the headstone for this team. Probably something should've been after the Montreal series, but standing pat while Marner's NMC kicked in is the truly egregious mismanagement.
I know people with the team and even around here have said 'well how would they get better??' but I don't think expecting that they'd do something is really all that outlandish. How many really good/great talents have been traded, even at a loss, when it looked like things just weren't going to work out where they were? It happens! And I bet it often works out better for the team trades them!
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Not just 16. They had the chance to trade 88 as well and Shanny said no.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
88 should have been the one to go. He scores some amazing goals. His total refusal to play anything resembling defense is inexcusable.
At least 16 and 34 have a 200 foot game.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Couldn't agree more. Love his skill on offence, hate everything else. Doesn't battle for pucks, wont take a hit to make a play, is a pylon in his own end, cheats D for offence. That shit doesn't work in the playoffs.
McDavid used to be horrible at playing D until it clicked in that he needed to, to have success. Willy could do it but chooses not to and probably never will.
ZBBM
Well-known member
I really hate to have to agree because herman is such a valuable member on here and I know how much he wants Willy to succeed. But I do agree.
Personally, I think they need to move on from both Marner and Willy in tandem (among others). At least they can get a good return for 88.
ZBBM
Well-known member
I don't agree. When you have a chance to sign an FA like Tavares — well, you don't have that chance, basically. And of the Core 4 JT is the least culpable. He has delivered on his money.