Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
Maybe JT should just stay in Yerp.
I don't think many of those teams in the tournament could beat an NHL team.
I don't think many of those teams in the tournament could beat an NHL team.
2024 Offseason Thread: Changes
- Thread starter herman
- Start date
Redleaf
Active member
I wish some members of the media would stop harping on about Marner being the problem for the Leafs not having more playoff success.
Marner is not the problem.
In fact, I would wager he will move onto another team find amazing playoff success and prove this BS theory completely false.
The problem with Maple Leafs is structure, too top heavy and not enough players that can or are willing to play good defensive hockey (Marner is not poor defensively, as proven with his utility on the penalty kill).
It will be regrettable if Marner is the player that is forced out the door in order to fix this teams flaws, but the most regrettable issue is how some of the media are berating him and placing the blame squarely on him .
The guy is one of the very best offensive players in the league and one of the best Leafs of all time. I just hope trading him or letting him walk doesn?t come back and bite this team in the ass like it has with a few other ex-Leafs in recent years.
Marner is not the problem.
In fact, I would wager he will move onto another team find amazing playoff success and prove this BS theory completely false.
The problem with Maple Leafs is structure, too top heavy and not enough players that can or are willing to play good defensive hockey (Marner is not poor defensively, as proven with his utility on the penalty kill).
It will be regrettable if Marner is the player that is forced out the door in order to fix this teams flaws, but the most regrettable issue is how some of the media are berating him and placing the blame squarely on him .
The guy is one of the very best offensive players in the league and one of the best Leafs of all time. I just hope trading him or letting him walk doesn?t come back and bite this team in the ass like it has with a few other ex-Leafs in recent years.
archie holdsworth
New member
RedLeaf said:
I'm on the same page as you and others who aren't looking to run Marner out of town.
I can't say that the Leafs should keep Marner no matter what. If a value for value trade came up that made lots of sense for the Leafs and for Marner, then sure, you would at least look at it. But this idea of shoving Marner out the door, just because? It's not a good idea.
The Leafs have enough cap space to fix some of their problems. They should address finding a top pairing defenseman. They need at least a 1A goaltender. All the issues that need fixing aren't going to be accomplished in one off-season.
After next season, the Tavares contract will be off the books or re-negotiated. The cap will probably take a much bigger jump. There should be room for further changes. I know Matthews is only signed for 4 more years, but that's a problem for down the road. Remember when he was apparently going to Phoenix for sure? If he likes how the team is developing, he's probably going to stick around.
The Leafs should be looking at re-signing Marner. There will be a salary bump. Leafs fans shouldn't fly off the handle when he gets that.
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Active member
MITCHY POO WE LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Bender said:
Not all passes to the slot may be equal in value, but the fact that he?s #2 on the list still probably tells us something.
Humans look for simple single explanations to complex phenomena and sometimes there just aren?t single simple explanations. The media and the fans are being far too hard on a single guy.
herman
Well-known member
princedpw said:
It matches my observations over the past couple of playoffs. This just tells me Marner gets lots of puck time, and if he can get the OZ set up, he is on the perimeter probing for slot passes.
Unfortunately, when he is doing this (which is a lot), the DZ structure is completely set, and basically they just smother Matthews and dare Marner to shoot or try to get a pass through. There's no threat from distance, there's no speed to manage, just zone defense box out until a mistake is made. Hence Matthews' putrid playoff numbers relative to regular season performance.
So when I say Keefe's playstyle catered to Marner, this is what I mean. Puck possession regroup to have lots of OZ time. Slow and methodical prying apart of defensive structure to free up a homerun pass. It means a lot of minutes in the OZ! Protects the goalie! Until the inevitable counter punch breakway puts your cold goalie in a 2 on 1 rush chance against.
Not all OZ zone time is created equal and you can see from the above, and from other research, most chances (xG, scoring chances, whatever you want to call it) are most valuable about within 5 seconds of entering the zone or after a possession change.
Lots of good numbers coming from Marner because of this tactic through the regular season, so in the aggregate, it is impressive. When you have a whole series to scout and adjust and focus your system approach, this was how Columbus, Montreal, Tampa, Boston shut down 22M worth of Leafs weaponry with one tactic. Playoff hockey isn't 4D chess and to spend 11+M so you can play 4D chess when there is no justification for playing it makes no sense going forward. This is a gold plated jet ski in the sand dunes.
But his defense! uh huh, yes we should spend 11+M on the equivalent of Alex Kerfoot but with baggage.
bustaheims
Active member
I don't think the Leafs should be looking to offload Marner, regardless of the return or other factors. That's just silly talk. He's too good a player for that, and some posters are being too glib about that.
That being said, with basically everyone who saw significant time with the Leafs this past season other than Matthews, Nylander, and Knies, the Leafs need to be willing to move on if doing so improves the team as a whole. While you're never going to get a Marner-level talent in return, it's quite possible that the sum of the parts returning could be more helpful in the team reaching their ultimate goal than Marner alone. The team as it is right now is flawed. There's only so much tinkering that can be done around the margins before you have to start looking at swapping out core pieces, and, I think that's where the Leafs are right now. Just about every option needs to be on the table.
That being said, with basically everyone who saw significant time with the Leafs this past season other than Matthews, Nylander, and Knies, the Leafs need to be willing to move on if doing so improves the team as a whole. While you're never going to get a Marner-level talent in return, it's quite possible that the sum of the parts returning could be more helpful in the team reaching their ultimate goal than Marner alone. The team as it is right now is flawed. There's only so much tinkering that can be done around the margins before you have to start looking at swapping out core pieces, and, I think that's where the Leafs are right now. Just about every option needs to be on the table.
bustaheims said:
They definitely should not be offloading him, but I think it's obvious the reason he gets brought up though is because of his current and future cap hits, the potential for bad blood negotiations over the summer and beyond, the possibility of him walking for nothing like Gaudreau, his issues of wilting in the playoffs and the need to better balance the roster. I'm not against a punt year to get JT off the books though, but the problem is we aren't going to win going the FA route and we don't have any draftees we can bank on to outperform their rookie contracts.
Unless we can pull off some kind of drastic move(s), I think this is the unfortunate reality of letting too many free agents walk for nothing coupled with throwing picks away for win now way too early and piss poor drafting and developing. The whole thing was mismanaged as soon as they made the playoffs in Year 1.