Chev-boyar-sky said:
slapshot said:
My goodness, people ranting about 3.5 years like it's been forever. There are what 6-7 general managers in the entire league that have actually won a cup, Burke being one of them.
Guys like Reiger and McPhee have been with their teams for what 15 years or so. Yes, they make the playoffs but they haven't won anything.
Some of the GMs that won like Bowman and Shero, walked into teams that were already stacked. Even Ken Holland did his first couple of cups, taking over from Bowman.
I see Leafs as really starting to stock the cupboards. Gardiner and Frattin gave a lot of room for optimism last year. If they continue to progress and there is no reason to think they won't, and we get a couple more advancing (say Kadri, Colborne or D'Amigo) things can turn around pretty quick. Even JVR, if he plays up to his potential, could make a big difference. It would be interesting to see what he could do between Kessel and Lupul, if they decide to try him there.
If the Leafs can get solid, consistent goaltending, I think they are in the playoffs for sure and the continued building will carry on with guys like Biggs, Ross, Rielly and Percy coming down the pike soon.
Good young core coming I think personally. Even the vets like Phaneuf and Kessel will not be "old" when the younger guys gain experience.
So Shero, Bowman and Holland are all just lucky? Regier and McPhee are not very good because they've remained competitive but never won the Cup?
Burke has done very little in his time here in terms of tangible results. Yes he's done some decent things with the prospects, as should be expected with 3 years of missing the playoffs (and 4 years of picks before that), but he's also traded away a large amount of his possible picks.
This team will likely need to be competitive (make the playoffs) for a good few years before a Cup magically appears.
The fact that Burke still needs to address the #1C, #1D and #1G indicate that this team will a) suck for awhile yet o b) move a bunch of the good prospects to obtain those players.
He's damned if he doesn't (team continues to languish and miss the playoffs) and damned if he does (roster gets stronger but the prospects he's been busy developing disappear).
Ultimately I think most people will get off his back if the team is competitive again, even if he ends up trading Kadri/Colborne/Frattin/D'Amigo/Percy/Blacker/Ross/Biggs etc.
Never said that Bowman and Holland were "just lucky." That's your interruption of it. What I said was that they were fortunate to have inherited teams that were already pretty well stacked. Not saying they weren't competent enough to help their teams win the cup. But having something to work with is a big help.
Consider what Burke inherited:
Jason Blake
Alexei Ponikarovsky
Matt Stajan
Mikhail Grabovski
Nik Antropov?
Niklas Hagman
Dominic Moore
Pavel Kubina
Tomas Kaberle
Nikolai Kulemin
Lee Stempniak
John Mitchell
Ian White
Jeff Finger
Jamal Mayers
Luke Schenn
Anton Stralman
Boyd Devereaux
Mike Van Ryn
Jeremy Williams
Jonas Frogren
Jeff Hamilton
Jiri Tlusty
Brad May
Ryan Hollweg
Phil Oreskovic
Jaime Sifers
Andre Deveaux
Jay Harrison
Tim Stapleton
Ben Ondrus
Kris Newbury
Vesa Toskela
Justin Pogge
The only two left are Grabo and Kulemin, probably the two best on the list (depending on how Schenn develops). Is there anyone that list, you would trade Frattin for straight up? Is there any three on that list you'd trade Gardiner for? Is there a forward on that list you'd trade Kadri or Colborne for today if you had the chance? Not me.
If you had an expansion draft today, you could probably fair just as well as that lot.
People complain that his UFAs didn't work out, but if you checked back, I'd bet that aside from Connolly (because of his injury history), practically everyone was praising the signings of Komo, Beauchemin, etc at the time. And, look at what the trade of Beauchemin brought back.
I'm not for dealing away all the young talent just to get "competitive". I think you stockpile it, just as Burke is doing, and then you selectively play your pieces, some you keep and some you use to improve your club in other areas. But as this young core develops I think the overall stock will rise collectively, with a few discards along the way (like Schenn for JVR).
Also, not saying Reiger and McPhee are not very good. Again, your interpretation. My point is the opposite, they've stuck around because they are good, but in spite of being good managers they haven't won yet...which just shows how tough it is.
I think Burke is a good manager as well, and if we can all remain patient, we will see things start to take off. If they can fix their goaltending and make the playoffs, they could very well land a key UFA next year. Look at how the Wild's fortunes changed in just one day today.