Armchair GM 2018-2019

[Andy007]

I mean, if JVR torched the Bruins and/or was an integral piece of a long playoff run would it still be considered a mismanagement? I don't know, I can certainly understand wanting to use JVR as a deadline asset

For the record, they had a long time to trade JVR. I don't think the criticism here is just "they didn't trade him at the deadline" but rather that they never traded him despite having two whole years where it would have made sense to.

to ultimately improve the defense but that assumes a lot of things about a) what the return specifically is for JVR

Not really. Unless you're going to make the argument that for some reason the return on JVR would have been, effectively, the lowest return in history for a 30 goal scorer as opposed a reasonable median return then it's still better than nothing.

, and b) what defender is available and at what cost? Is it not possible that a deal for a significant d upgrade just wasn't available/feasible?

At the deadline? Sure. But, again, A) I'm not saying the only time they should have dealt him was at the deadline and B) I'm not saying they needed to make a direct "JVR for a defenseman" trade. They could trade JVR for picks/prospects and then hang onto those valuable picks/prospects until a suitable defenseman became available. There wasn't a limited window of time here.

And then you add in the fact that you'd be shipping out JVR to strengthen a potential opponent/rival.

And what? If, say, JVR had been dealt to a Western conference team then the downside is...that somehow people would regret it if the team that was already a longshot to make it out of the first round somehow made it to the Stanley Cup finals and just happened to play the team they traded him to? Or to a Metro team they made it to the ECF against?

I'm pretty critical of the Leafs management here but I think presenting that as a serious issue that they considered and let influence their "Should we get anything for JVR" decision makes them look worse than anything i'm accusing them of.

Sorry about this large post but I actually don't know how to break up the quotes and reply to them individually  :-\

Just to clarify, I was not only in the 'move JVR this deadline' camp but also in the 'move him two years ago' one. Maybe it's just when I hear the use of mismanagement I begin to think of the Komisarek, Liles, Lupul, Phaneuf and Clarkson deals of recent years, and the crazy amount of bungling the years preceding those. Anyway I guess until these misfires or missed opportunities begin to pile up, I'm a bit wary of throwing out too much criticism on a situation that though ultimately mishandled, wasn't too egregious imo. It's not like they missed they playoffs by a long shot and still kept the Sedins  :-X

 

[herman]

You can break up the quote however you want using the quote tags

 

[Kin]

Just to clarify, I was not only in the 'move JVR this deadline' camp but also in the 'move him two years ago' one. Maybe it's just when I hear the use of mismanagement I begin to think of the Komisarek, Liles, Lupul, Phaneuf and Clarkson deals of recent years, and the crazy amount of bungling the years preceding those.

There's no right or wrong, really, with how one might individually categorize how the team's being run but personally I feel ok with saying they weren't very well run last year while leaving the possibility open that they may be well run again in the future. I don't think we need to lock ourselves into binaries of good or bad management. Like I said, I think last year the team got ahead of itself and thought they could start skipping important steps on the road to competing seriously. Hopefully getting knocked out of the first round(and certain people not being there anymore) will take the team back to more of the smart/creative thinking we've seen in the past.

Anyway I guess until these misfires or missed opportunities begin to pile up, I'm a bit wary of throwing out too much criticism on a situation that though ultimately mishandled, wasn't too egregious imo. It's not like they missed they playoffs by a long shot and still kept the Sedins  :-X

I very much understand looking at what a reasonable return might have been for JVR, say a mid-late 1st and prospect, and saying that not having either of those things isn't a catastrophe but I do think that's a little bit like not really caring about your credit card bill until payment's due.

The reason I brought it up in this thread is that with a few looming questions for the team in terms of improvement from where they are to where they want to be and internal options looking limited to say the least the Leafs are in sort of a tricky position. In looking at how to add a top tier D or improvements up the middle we're not saying "Look at all of these surplus assets from dealing pending UFA's" but rather "Maybe they'd take Kadri and some draft picks".

It's only when some of those moves actually get made(or not) and we see the resulting holes on the roster they leave that the real opportunity cost of not moving JVR and his pals will really become apparent.

 

[mr grieves]

Wondering if OEL might be a reasonable option for the Leafs to pursue this summer.  Seems to tick a lot of boxes, can likely fill 1'st pairing, eats minutes, relatively young (27 in July), and acquisition cost might not be the over-the-moon variety.  I would think a deal would revolve around a non-16/29/34 piece sprinkled liberally with draft picks and non-Liljegren Marlies.

He's a LHD so unless Babcock has a big change of heart about these things his being a 1st pairing guy would depend on him being better than Rielly and Gardiner which might be true but doesn't seem like a sure thing.

Also, I think if he could be had for that sort of return I don't think he'd still be in Arizona. Just about everything I'd read when sporadic rumours of his availability came up was that the Coyotes wanted a pretty heavy price for him.

I hope GM Dubas starts every Babcock meeting with an hour long presentation from the stat nerd department that demonstrates Rielly or Dermott on his 'wrong' side better than any of Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak, or whatever other plug the coach has fall in love with next year.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Wondering if OEL might be a reasonable option for the Leafs to pursue this summer.  Seems to tick a lot of boxes, can likely fill 1'st pairing, eats minutes, relatively young (27 in July), and acquisition cost might not be the over-the-moon variety.  I would think a deal would revolve around a non-16/29/34 piece sprinkled liberally with draft picks and non-Liljegren Marlies.

He's a LHD so unless Babcock has a big change of heart about these things his being a 1st pairing guy would depend on him being better than Rielly and Gardiner which might be true but doesn't seem like a sure thing.

Also, I think if he could be had for that sort of return I don't think he'd still be in Arizona. Just about everything I'd read when sporadic rumours of his availability came up was that the Coyotes wanted a pretty heavy price for him.

I hope GM Dubas starts every Babcock meeting with an hour long presentation from the stat nerd department that demonstrates Rielly or Dermott on his 'wrong' side better than any of Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak, or whatever other plug the coach has fall in love with next year.

Dubas can do this by simply not signing the plug in the first place.

 

[Zee]

Wondering if OEL might be a reasonable option for the Leafs to pursue this summer.  Seems to tick a lot of boxes, can likely fill 1'st pairing, eats minutes, relatively young (27 in July), and acquisition cost might not be the over-the-moon variety.  I would think a deal would revolve around a non-16/29/34 piece sprinkled liberally with draft picks and non-Liljegren Marlies.

He's a LHD so unless Babcock has a big change of heart about these things his being a 1st pairing guy would depend on him being better than Rielly and Gardiner which might be true but doesn't seem like a sure thing.

Also, I think if he could be had for that sort of return I don't think he'd still be in Arizona. Just about everything I'd read when sporadic rumours of his availability came up was that the Coyotes wanted a pretty heavy price for him.

I hope GM Dubas starts every Babcock meeting with an hour long presentation from the stat nerd department that demonstrates Rielly or Dermott on his 'wrong' side better than any of Zaitsev, Hainsey, Polak, or whatever other plug the coach has fall in love with next year.

Dubas can do this by simply not signing the plug in the first place.

I wonder if Babcock can hand out "personal service contracts" at his own discretion.  ;D

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I wonder if Babcock can hand out "personal service contracts" at his own discretion.  ;D

Only if he pays for them out of his own pocket... which I mean he could probably afford to do.

 

[AvroArrow]

Anybody keep up on Stastny?
Would it be worthwhile to sign him and turn around and use Kadri as a trade chip?

Example:
Sign Stastny, say 4 yrs at 5M
Trade Kadri to Nashville for Ellis

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Anybody keep up on Stastny?
Would it be worthwhile to sign him and turn around and use Kadri as a trade chip?

Example:
Sign Stastny, say 4 yrs at 5M
Trade Kadri to Nashville for Ellis

I'm not saying he's worth it but I'd be pretty surprised if his AAV doesn't start with a 6.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/regressIan/status/992804203524378624

Hmmm. It's funny if Carlson wasn't coming off a crazy career high season I might have been more interested. The money he's going to get off this one year though will be insane.

 

[AvroArrow]

I'm not saying he's worth it but I'd be pretty surprised if his AAV doesn't start with a 6.

That's why I put a 4 year term.  He's 32, so I was hoping the term could get his AAV down.

 

[herman]

If Lou goes to the Island, how long do you think it will be until Josh Ho-Sang is freed up? Would you acquire him?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So here's a trade idea... with John Carlson being so instrumental in Washington's success this year, both in the regular season and in the playoffs, I wonder if it forces them to re-sign him. In which case, they would need to clear salary to make room. With that in mind...

Zaitsev+ for Niskanen and Orpik

Niskanen has 3 years left on his contract at $5.75mil and Orpik has 1 year left at $5.5mil. Orpik is a clear salary dump, while Niskanen is pretty valuable to the team (he plays on their shutdown pairing with Orlov). But in this situation they'd basically be picking Carlson over Niskanen.

So Washington opens up $6.75mil in cap space here and gets a cheaper/younger replacement for Niskanen. Zaitsev also fits into the whole Russian-vibe that Washington has going on. Like I've said every time I bring up trading Zaitsev... this obviously relies on the Caps viewing Zaitsev more like Babcock does as opposed to how I do, which is probably a fair assumption.

Not sure what the "+" would be in this case, but I don't think it would be something significant (i.e. not a 1st/Kapanen/Johnsson/Brown).

 

[dappleganger]

If Lou goes to the Island, how long do you think it will be until Josh Ho-Sang is freed up? Would you acquire him?

I'd pass. Has talent but too many question marks there.

 

[bustaheims]

If Lou goes to the Island, how long do you think it will be until Josh Ho-Sang is freed up? Would you acquire him?

Worth the risk if you can get him cheap.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/KKurzNHL/status/993903515545227264

He had the exact same knee injuries two years in a row? Ok... maybe I'm not that interested anymore.

 

[cabber24]

https://twitter.com/KKurzNHL/status/993903515545227264

He had the exact same knee injuries two years in a row? Ok... maybe I'm not that interested anymore.

Sharks smarks... you're as good as signed in T dot O dot.

 

[herman]

I'd pass. Has talent but too many question marks there.

Worth the risk if you can get him cheap.

Depends on the price for me. 2nd or 3rd rd pick? No brainer. If they take him for a cast off prospect (or freebie) like Nielsen/Marchment/Moore, easy peasy.

Scoring skill and automatic carry entries doesn't grow on trees.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'd pass. Has talent but too many question marks there.

Worth the risk if you can get him cheap.

Depends on the price for me. 2nd or 3rd rd pick? No brainer. If they take him for a cast off prospect (or freebie) like Nielsen/Marchment/Moore, easy peasy.

Scoring skill and automatic carry entries doesn't grow on trees.

Martin for Ho-Sang. Boom.

 

[bustaheims]

Depends on the price for me. 2nd or 3rd rd pick? No brainer. If they take him for a cast off prospect (or freebie) like Nielsen/Marchment/Moore, easy peasy.

Scoring skill and automatic carry entries doesn't grow on trees.

Same. Not interested in giving up any of the better prospects for him. I'd even be leery about a 2nd round pick, as his numbers in the AHL and his brief NHL stints don't exactly jump out as impressive. But 3rd round pick or later? Absolutely.