Asking price for Tyler Bozak appears to be a second round pick

[bustaheims]

I wouldn't be in any rush to move JvR. Even if his numbers drop a little next season, it's not going to impact his value significantly. Teams know what he's capable of. If a team comes along with a really great offer for him, I think you have to consider it, but he's not a guy you shop and simply take the best offer for at this point.

 

[Frank E]

I wouldn't be in any rush to move JvR. Even if his numbers drop a little next season, it's not going to impact his value significantly. Teams know what he's capable of. If a team comes along with a really great offer for him, I think you have to consider it, but he's not a guy you shop and simply take the best offer for at this point.

I disagree.

He's playing at a higher level than his contract value colleagues, is not injured, and his cap hit/term is manageable for many teams

He'd return a nice little package right now, and the Leafs don't need him.  I'm not willing to risk him going backwards, or worse, getting injured.

I know they have to ice a roster here, but luxuries like JvR aren't really needed right now.  What's needed right now is more top-tier talent prospects/1st round picks.

I think now is exactly when you trade JvR.

 

[hobarth]

I wouldn't be in any rush to move JvR. Even if his numbers drop a little next season, it's not going to impact his value significantly. Teams know what he's capable of. If a team comes along with a really great offer for him, I think you have to consider it, but he's not a guy you shop and simply take the best offer for at this point.

I disagree.

He's playing at a higher level than his contract value colleagues, is not injured, and his cap hit/term is manageable for many teams

He'd return a nice little package right now, and the Leafs don't need him.  I'm not willing to risk him going backwards, or worse, getting injured.

I know they have to ice a roster here, but luxuries like JvR aren't really needed right now.  What's needed right now is more top-tier talent prospects/1st round picks.

I think now is exactly when you trade JvR.

I agree that JVR should be moved, he's a huge part of TO's core, the same core that did so poorly the last 2 years, and he's probably TO's most marketable player at this point. However he has a no movement clause but really I don't think these clauses are as significant as most think they are because players are human and want to be wanted.

I would expect JVR would fetch at least as much as Kessel because of his contract, now, not so sure about next year. It's a risk to keep him, trade while the value is high. Bozak with the same $ amount as JVR would be much harder to move.

The only problem with moving out all of the better players is how does that lend itself to a winning culture, essentially I would think you need to either win or be capable of winning to promote an atmosphere favorable to winning, the deeper the despair the longer the repair.

Bringing in players like Parenteau seems counterproductive but we shall see.

 

[KW Sluggo]

I wouldn't be in any rush to move JvR. Even if his numbers drop a little next season, it's not going to impact his value significantly. Teams know what he's capable of. If a team comes along with a really great offer for him, I think you have to consider it, but he's not a guy you shop and simply take the best offer for at this point.

I disagree.

He's playing at a higher level than his contract value colleagues, is not injured, and his cap hit/term is manageable for many teams

He'd return a nice little package right now, and the Leafs don't need him.  I'm not willing to risk him going backwards, or worse, getting injured.

I know they have to ice a roster here, but luxuries like JvR aren't really needed right now.  What's needed right now is more top-tier talent prospects/1st round picks.

I think now is exactly when you trade JvR.

I agree that JVR should be moved, he's a huge part of TO's core, the same core that did so poorly the last 2 years, and he's probably TO's most marketable player at this point. However he has a no movement clause but really I don't think these clauses are as significant as most think they are because players are human and want to be wanted.

I would expect JVR would fetch at least as much as Kessel because of his contract, now, not so sure about next year. It's a risk to keep him, trade while the value is high. Bozak with the same $ amount as JVR would be much harder to move.

The only problem with moving out all of the better players is how does that lend itself to a winning culture, essentially I would think you need to either win or be capable of winning to promote an atmosphere favorable to winning, the deeper the despair the longer the repair.

Bringing in players like Parenteau seems counterproductive but we shall see.

Deadline deal for JVR and perhaps for Kadri too.

Bozak goes now.

 

[hobarth]

Actual Leaf history shows that that would have been the last thing he would have done. Conn Smythe tried to take his high-end talent and surround it with more high-end talent. Same with the early Punch Imlach. Who went out and found ? hell, he helped create ? a great passing, and great defensive Center to add to Mahovlich.

But what did our Leafs brains of a few years back do instead? They stuck Tyler Bozak next to Kessel.

That?s Tyler Bozak, by the way, whose career plus/minus is almost twice as bad as Phil?s.

The same Tyler Bozak, who on offence, never even got to 50 points. While playing with Kessel and JVR.

And Tyler Bozak, in 5 years with Phil Kessel, had less than 50 primary assists.

In total.

50. In 5 years. Playing with Kessel, JVR and Lupul.

And yet our genius media has spent the last 5 years praising Bozak, and blaming Phil.

If Conn Smythe had seen this sort of shite on his Leaf team, he would have slapped Dave Nonis and Randy Carlyle silly.

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/07/06/phil-in-the-pits/

This is an extremely long read!

I suppose one reason to consider it might be because you think that his value is bound to drop if separated from Kessel. I think he's a good enough player to be reasonably productive on his own but he might be more valuable as a 30 ish goal, 60 some odd point player than a 20 goal, 45 point player.

We talk a lot about how Kessel carried Bozak but yeah I think he certainly helped JVR put up some points too. It didn't happen often but when JVR was taken away from Kessel I wasn't a big fan of the results.

Actually Kessel put up superior stats before JVR with Lupul, that was 4 years ago, Lupul had his best offensive season playing with Kessel as has JVR since playing with Kessel so it's a good thing Kessel is gone, the next thing you know JVR will be asking for $s that Kessel helped/caused him to have a reason to ask for. On a team of so little quality JVR was essentially all TO had for Kessel to play with, JVR created space for Kessel by going to the opposition's net, JVR doesn't carry the puck, doesn't make plays, isn't physical, doesn't defend so if he isn't going to the opposition's net he appears to have little value. Kessel is the only player on the Leafs that could get the puck to him in front of the opposition's net, his value will not increase, there is no way, move him before he is exposed. 

 

[Coco-puffs]

I guess we shouldn't play JVR or Lupul with Kadri either... Wouldn't want to inflate anyone's value 

 

[Al14]

I guess we shouldn't play JVR or Lupul with Kadri either... Wouldn't want to inflate anyone's value 

Buy high, sell low!

 

[moon111]

This season might hurt because nobody is getting rushed.  But it won't be long before the play-making skills will keep the wingers fed.  Kessel was pretty good, but it won't be long before his talent is replaced.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm having a good laugh at all the revisionist crap since Kessel got dealt. Yeah it was anybody's fault but poor little misunderstood Phil's. He was a megasuperstar we don't know what we got till it's gone yaddablahblah.

That why Babcock lobbied hard to keep him and why there was an insane bidding war for his invaluable irreplaceable services.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm having a good laugh at all the revisionist crap since Kessel got dealt. Yeah it was anybody's fault but poor little misunderstood Phil's. He was a megasuperstar we don't know what we got till it's gone yaddablahblah.

That why Babcock lobbied hard to keep him and why there was an insane bidding war for his invaluable irreplaceable services.

Must be a new definition of "revisionist".

 

[hobarth]

I'm sort of ruefully happy that we may finally see the true value of Bozak, I don't feel that he's a practical value as presently compensated and I hope he proves me wrong but I hope that he will prove me wrong with another team because the chances of him succeeding are slim and TO will have to continue to pay him.

I bear no malice towards Bozak because he doesn't deserve it, I have always felt he gave his best but hustle itself isn't enough. The contract he signed was deserved because it was what TO's hierarchy decided he was worth.

 

[herman]

Threadsurrection time:

[tweet]677521354896236544[/tweet]
[tweet]677534002308382721[/tweet]

Bozak's value is on the rise.

 

[Kin]

Why would playing with Phil Kessel keep someone from getting points?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I'm not surprised that somebody took this stance, I'm just surprised that it wasn't Simmons or Feschuk.

 

[disco]

Be interesting to see what Lou can fetch for possible value guys at the deadline. I'm sure it will depend on who Babs likes moving forward long term as well. Bozie, JVR, Parenteau and others could move. If Mike likes Naz's defensive responsibility he could stick long term.  The bigger contracts like Phaneuf and Lupes will most likely play out the stretch. Which is not all bad, need some vets around with a good work ethic.

What I like is that Babs has instilled a consistency and work ethic that when guys start coming up after seasoning they can get plugged right into a good environment, ready to go. Marner, Nylander and others next year. These picks in 3-4.  I'm excited. Guys like Reilly and Naz have talked about the world of difference between this year and last. Even though they're prob bottom 5 again this year, they genuinely want to come to the rink everyday. That's remarkable.

 

[herman]

Why would playing with Phil Kessel keep someone from getting points?

The running theory is that PAP missed a word in what he was saying during that quote.

"I knew playing against him, he wasn't just getting points because he was playing with Phil Kessel. I knew that."

Or... Kessel was hogging all the pucks and points because his sense of competition was piqued by the talent he saw in Bozak.

I think the article will be about how Bozak is tied with Kessel in points right now and how the derision about his play in years past (drafting in Kessel's wake) was a misreading. PA Parenteau will gush about the centre that has revitalized his career, and Bozak will brush it off with aw-shucks platitudes about playing as a team and everybody's in this together.

 

[Kin]

Ah fair enough. Have to remember that PA is not speaking his first language.

Anyways, I will say that even though I know it's not a statistically significant sample size yet what's happened with Kessel/Bozak's point totals this year, after the thousands of words on this board about how terrible a drain on Kessel Bozak was, is at the very least funny.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Ah fair enough. Have to remember that PA is not speaking his first language.

Anyways, I will say that even though I know it's not a statistically significant sample size yet what's happened with Kessel/Bozak's point totals this year, after the thousands of words on this board about how terrible a drain on Kessel Bozak was, is at the very least funny.

I've been impressed with Bozak offensively this season, but it's funny how similar their respective stats are.  There are so many stats where they are either identical or very, very close to one another.  For instance, they have the exact same 5v5 P/60 right now, and there's a bunch like that.

Although with the way Pittsburgh is going I wouldn't be surprised if Bozak's stats are comparable to Crosby right now either.

 

[herman]

I've been impressed with Bozak offensively this season, but it's funny how similar their respective stats are.  There are so many stats where they are either identical or very, very close to one another.  For instance, they have the exact same 5v5 P/60 right now, and there's a bunch like that.

Although with the way Pittsburgh is going I wouldn't be surprised if Bozak's stats are comparable to Crosby right now either.

This is how trade rumours start.

Penguins need a shake up. Kessel needs a centre. Crosby for Bozak. Make it so.

 

[herman]

http://www.tsn.ca/bozak-finding-unexpected-post-kessel-value-1.411043

Pretty much as expected.

The prevailing opinions weren?t lost on Tyler Bozak, the consistently self-assured Maple Leafs? centre.

He only got his points, or so the theory went, for one reason: Phil Kessel.

Kessel was the high-flying goal-scorer Bozak ran shotgun with since his Leafs career began and it was Kessel who allowed Bozak to produce as he did in his first six NHL seasons ? about 0.67 points per game.

It was not a theory without merit, but Bozak is demonstrating this year that he can do some things without the now-Pittsburgh Penguins winger. The soon-to-be 30-year-old centre, who has exceeded Kessel?s slumping production so far this year, is on pace for a career-high 57 points.

He?s second on the Leafs with 19 points in 26 games.

?I thought I could do it,? Bozak said of finding success without Kessel. ?I know my teammates thought I could. So obviously the media and everyone that didn?t think I could [were wrong]. It?s nice to be able to produce points without him. Obviously he?s an unbelievable player and helped me get a ton of points and helped me mould my way into this league, but it?s nice to be able to contribute [without him] as well.?

P.A. Parenteau has raved about Bozak since the two were paired together at the start of November. An Eastern Conference foe for much of his career previously ? with stops in Long Island and Montreal ? Parenteau thinks Bozak gets overlooked.

?I knew playing against him he wasn?t getting points because he was playing with Phil Kessel. I knew that,? said Parenteau, who has seven goals and 13 points in 20 games since he joined Bozak?s side.

?You know the enemies, right? You know how they play. He?s such a good playmaker. I think he was making Phil better too.?