Carlyle Extended/Randy's Revenge

[GhostofPotvin29]

And it's a bad carpenter who doesn't realize there's a lot you can do with plywood if used properly: http://www.gunnersens.com.au/articles/a-z-uses-of-plywood.html

 

[bustaheims]

It's a poor carpenter that blames his tools but it's a reasonable carpenter who knows there's only so much you can do with plywood.

A reasonable carpenter looks at the tools and supplies available to him, and doesn't try to build a bomb shelter when what he's presented with is clearly meant for a tree house.

 

[rdowdall]

So Mike Babcock gets his team into the playoffs with a bunch of injuries, is a Jack Adams finalist and Detroit still isn't sold on giving him an extension yet.

The Vancouver Canucks miss the playoffs for the first time in God knows how many years and they fire their coach with 4 years left on his contract. Plus the GM.

The Toronto Maple Leafs not only miss the playoffs for the eighth time in the last nine years, they also set a record for most shots on goal allowed in a season and we give our coach an extension.

Mind-boggling doesn't even begin to describe it.

Just to be nitpicky, Mike Babcock isn't signing an extension because Mike Babcock has said he wants to go year to year.  Ken Holland wants to sign him to a multi-year extension.

 

[L K]

A bad manager blames the pieces he has.  Leadership has to start with the coach in the dressing room.

It's a poor carpenter that blames his tools but it's a reasonable carpenter who knows there's only so much you can do with plywood.

Well sure.  And a good carpenter would recognize that what he was doing with plywood isn't appropriate for plywood and might consider adjusting his approach.  If I'm to believe what Carlyle experienced, he tried and tried and tried to get through to the team and none of them would do what he would ask of them.  It just seems pretty funny that Nonis is going to use the 48 game season as proof that Carlyle can be effective, but the next 82 games were the fault of the players.

 

[2badknees]

I don't see why folks here should care if he got an extension, even if they don't like him. It means nothing. MLSE can let him go after training camp. It isn't my money, and it isn't cap money.

If a top coach is available at some time in the future, and he has a number of options, I'm sure he'll consider how professionally the last guy was treated by each organization. Hence the extension. Good move by whoever is running the team, I can't tell anymore.

 

[Bullfrog]

Well, that was a surprise.

 

[Kin]

A reasonable carpenter looks at the tools and supplies available to him, and doesn't try to build a bomb shelter when what he's presented with is clearly meant for a tree house.

Sure, but if you're hired to build a bomb shelter, why bother to build a treehouse if nobody will be happy with it anyway? You're still screwed when the bomb drops.

Anyways, now that we've concluded that every metaphor has it's limits, I was really just referring to the discussion of Carlyle and what he was attributing the failure to. Even if it's true, he can't very well say "Well, our performance wasn't very good because the players on the team aren't very good" in an atmosphere when him saying that Reimer played "just okay" is seen by some as some unforgivable, team-sinking insult.

 

[Kin]

Well sure.  And a good carpenter would recognize that what he was doing with plywood isn't appropriate for plywood and might consider adjusting his approach.

Well, as someone who knows a thing or two about that sort of thing I don't think that's true. If Carlyle was hired to build a champion but doesn't have the pieces for a champion, should he really decide that what he needs to do is mold the team to mediocrity? Or should he try to mold the team to the championship model that's worked for him and, when it fails, begin to address the more pressing issue of the lack of talent on the team?

I'd agree with you, I guess, if I really was disappointed that the Leafs didn't squeeze into one of the Wild Card spots or saw the fact that they're may not squeeze into that spot next year as being really disheartening. I will genuinely take spectacular failure over that.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I think Nonis and Shanahan must have watched the series finale of the Mary Tyler Moore Show before making this decision.  They extended Ted Baxter and fired Mary Richards, Lou Grant and Murray Slaughter.

 

[Leaflifer]

I don't see why folks here should care if he got an extension, even if they don't like him. It means nothing. MLSE can let him go after training camp. It isn't my money, and it isn't cap money.

If a top coach is available at some time in the future, and he has a number of options, I'm sure he'll consider how professionally the last guy was treated by each organization. Hence the extension. Good move by whoever is running the team, I can't tell anymore.

I agree. I'm surprised but not terrified. This is easier to fix than a bad player contract

 

[Rebel_1812]

I was hoping for complete changes at the coaching and GM level.  Yes, even Nonis to not be back. 

Trouble is, if the above had occurred, who would have been the replacements at all positions -- namely for Carlyle's and Nonis' replacements?

That is kind of what I was harping on and what I expect happened here.  There was no better replacements available so they decided to keep him; but not really keep him.  Its only a two year deal, so if a good coach becomes available it would be easy to fire him.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

This was posted before Carlyle's extension, it details the seemingly sour relationship between Gardiner and Carlyle and how one of them positively impacts the team.

http://theleafsnation.com/2014/5/7/randy-and-jake

Towards the end of the season, I thought it was commonly accepted that Randy Carlyle would bite the dust in the offseason, paving the way for this current Leafs core to get a chance to compete for a playoff spot under a different head coach. Perhaps one that isn't so deliberately harmful on the possession game.

A lot of people, when pointing out the flaws in any sort of stats-based analysis, like to mention that hockey is a very fluid game with lots of moving parts. It makes data recording more difficult. I wouldn't say that's necessarily true. If you've tracked zone entries, which involves recording which player moved the puck into the offensive zone and the way he did it, you begin to notice a lot of repetitive movements that have wildly different results.

 

[Peter D.]

It makes sense from Shanahan's perspective. The team is deeply flawed, there won't be a quick turnaround so why put himself on the hot-seat immediately by bringing in all of "his people" when people see they're not magicians either?

Bringing this forward from pages back, but after thinking about this, I could get behind this reasoning.

Doesn't excuse the extension, which is just optically bad, but if Shanahan is thinking the team/organization is in shambles and wants to buy at least a year of evaluation before putting his stamp on things...well, I just want to believe in Shanny and what he is doing (I get the sense I am just fooling myself).

 

[Wendel's Fist]

So Mike Babcock gets his team into the playoffs with a bunch of injuries, is a Jack Adams finalist and Detroit still isn't sold on giving him an extension yet.

The Vancouver Canucks miss the playoffs for the first time in God knows how many years and they fire their coach with 4 years left on his contract. Plus the GM.

The Toronto Maple Leafs not only miss the playoffs for the eighth time in the last nine years, they also set a record for most shots on goal allowed in a season and we give our coach an extension.

Mind-boggling doesn't even begin to describe it.

Just to be nitpicky, Mike Babcock isn't signing an extension because Mike Babcock has said he wants to go year to year.  Ken Holland wants to sign him to a multi-year extension.

Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen or read anything that said that Babcock refused an extension and wanted to go year to year. From what I've seen, he said that he'd be willing to go year to year if that's what Holland and the Red Wings wanted. He isn't just starting out as a coach and at this point in his career, an extension isn't mandatory to him. I doubt he'd refuse an extension though if it were offered to him.

All that I've seen Holland say is that the they were going to discuss things over the summer.

Maybe you've seen or heard something that I haven't?

 

[princedpw]

Is it too soon??  ;D  I figure we can start drawing conclusions about Carlyle after tonights game. 

Are you kidding me?  We can start drawing conclusions immediately without knowing anything at all.  Why wait until he has had more than 24 hours with the team?  If he can't fix what is wrong in half a day, he doesn't deserve to coach.

I accidentally went to the beginning of this thread and found the above. Sigh. It wasn't too soon.

 

[princedpw]

I don't see why folks here should care if he got an extension, even if they don't like him. It means nothing. MLSE can let him go after training camp. It isn't my money, and it isn't cap money.

If a top coach is available at some time in the future, and he has a number of options, I'm sure he'll consider how professionally the last guy was treated by each organization. Hence the extension. Good move by whoever is running the team, I can't tell anymore.

I agree. I'm surprised but not terrified. This is easier to fix than a bad player contract

Well, we've got several of those too.

 

[Strangelove]

He should have been fired two months into the season. This is a travesty and i won't support the team with more than a passing interest this coming season.

Randy is a dinosaur. The Leafs deserve him.

 

[dappleganger]

I am pissed at this move.

I want to say that I am (I was?) a fan of Randy Carlyle's but after this past season there is no way you can justify bringing him back let alone giving him an extension.

I LOVE the Toronto Maple Leafs but I'm worried I might be falling into Strangelove's boat.

The Brown's got John Foosball at 22! Go Brownies!

 

[TML fan]

Well sure.  And a good carpenter would recognize that what he was doing with plywood isn't appropriate for plywood and might consider adjusting his approach.

Well, as someone who knows a thing or two about that sort of thing I don't think that's true. If Carlyle was hired to build a champion but doesn't have the pieces for a champion, should he really decide that what he needs to do is mold the team to mediocrity? Or should he try to mold the team to the championship model that's worked for him and, when it fails, begin to address the more pressing issue of the lack of talent on the team?

I'd agree with you, I guess, if I really was disappointed that the Leafs didn't squeeze into one of the Wild Card spots or saw the fact that they're may not squeeze into that spot next year as being really disheartening. I will genuinely take spectacular failure over that.

Is it realistic to expect Carlyle to be around long enough for the Leafs' talent level to reach the point of nullifying Carlyle's obsolete and asinine coaching philosophy?

Hmm....then again, his idiotic approach to the game may be just what the doctor ordered?

 

[hockeyfan1]

This is a sad and depressing day all around

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2014/5/8/5695978/randy-carlyles-
work-in-toronto-a-retrospective

dont read if you've had or are planning to have dark thoughts and warn your
doctor if these thoughts persist

I think I'm going to need the doctor.