Clarkson for horton

[Bender]

[tweet]571343338852495360[/tweet]

lololololololololololol

I seriously think this man walks around with a dunce cap on his head. He had no powerplay points for how long??? Why should he be used on the powerplay if he's not producing??

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Good character guy.

Sometimes accounts do get lost in translation. It is interesting how Pro Hockey in Europe got the scoop on this to a point but normally European players feel a bit more open. Thanks to Hockeysverige for the article confirming my suspicions from April. Please be advised that this is translated. This is the comments of Elias on David Clarkson signing his long term high money deal in July with the Toronto Maple Leafs:

?Clarkson wasn?t worth the money. Sure he could put the puck in the net but that was about it. I do not understand the Leafs. They are crazy. Just to pay a guy 35 million + for seven years is incredible?.

That was just from Thursday and the reality is there were rumblings of further discontent as far back as the 2011-12 season. People have to realize that winning just masks a lot of discord sometimes. There also was an alleged incident the night before Patrik Elias?s birthday where Clarkson and Elias had to be separated. Clearly the frustration of playing with someone not on the same talent level had boiled over especially considering Clarkson only found the back of the net five times in his last 32 games. He wasn?t injured and had a ton of prime scoring chances but kept finding ways not to convert. It grew on Elias and it stewed and stewed until it boiled over. That night, things were tossed and words were said that could not be taken back.

This locker room fracas as he later apologized for was the beginning of the end for Clarkson in New Jersey

http://hockeythisweek.com/devils-this-week-elias-and-clarkson-the-burning-questions/

 

[bustaheims]

Having a capologist who knows what LTIR actually stands for makes me more comfortable that they'll navigate those waters properly.

One thing that I didn't know about LTIR is that it doesn't pro-rate like regular cap space does.

I'm confident it won't be an issue, either, but it's just something to keep in mind.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Feb. 26th will forever be burned in Leafs fans hearts as the day the team earned our trust back, before crushing it in some other more fantastical way.

 

[Bender]

Good character guy.

Sometimes accounts do get lost in translation. It is interesting how Pro Hockey in Europe got the scoop on this to a point but normally European players feel a bit more open. Thanks to Hockeysverige for the article confirming my suspicions from April. Please be advised that this is translated. This is the comments of Elias on David Clarkson signing his long term high money deal in July with the Toronto Maple Leafs:

?Clarkson wasn?t worth the money. Sure he could put the puck in the net but that was about it. I do not understand the Leafs. They are crazy. Just to pay a guy 35 million + for seven years is incredible?.

That was just from Thursday and the reality is there were rumblings of further discontent as far back as the 2011-12 season. People have to realize that winning just masks a lot of discord sometimes. There also was an alleged incident the night before Patrik Elias?s birthday where Clarkson and Elias had to be separated. Clearly the frustration of playing with someone not on the same talent level had boiled over especially considering Clarkson only found the back of the net five times in his last 32 games. He wasn?t injured and had a ton of prime scoring chances but kept finding ways not to convert. It grew on Elias and it stewed and stewed until it boiled over. That night, things were tossed and words were said that could not be taken back.

This locker room fracas as he later apologized for was the beginning of the end for Clarkson in New Jersey

http://hockeythisweek.com/devils-this-week-elias-and-clarkson-the-burning-questions/

Clarkson has literally deluded himself into believing he's a scorer and the only reason it's not working is he's not getting the opportunities.

What an indictment that article is. Good riddance you sad sack of moronic crap.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Same Clarkson that two weeks ago was flabbergasted at being a healthy scratch.  He doesn't know he sucks.

 

[L K]

Listening to hockey central.  More excuses for his awful play.  It's really unbelieable to me. 

Jason Blake got railed on for his crappy play.  The guy played through cancer.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Same Clarkson that two weeks ago was flabbergasted at being a healthy scratch.  He doesn't know he sucks.

Reminds me of an old friend  from high school.  He always fancied himself a talented singer, and was the only one that didn't realize he was tone deaf.

 

[herman]

Well how about that:
http://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/2q76cp/what_are_some_realistic_trades_you_would_make/cn3ia91?context=3

What are some realistic trades you would make this season?
submitted 2 months ago by davesuperstar

[?]jonoc4 22 points 2 months ago
Trade Clarkson for Nathan Horton... think about it!

 

[Capn_Crunch]

So it's his responsibility ... except not really, because he was answering to ridiculous expectations?

Or, rather, it's his responsibility but not solely his responsibility which, and I know this sort of nuance can be hard to wrap your head around, actually doesn't mitigate his responsibility.

No, I get you totally.  So basically we agree, and he needs to take the fall because it comes with the title.

Thats insane. Some fans act like a GM is supposed to be perfect in every move and deal.
He made a mistake, one that probaly was not totally his doing. Does anyone know for sure that the Clarkson signing was ONLY Nonis's doing? Nope. Was there a lot of pressure from many angles to sign him? media pressure, fan pressure and MLSE pressure.

He got told to put a winner on the ice with the assets he had on hand. He probably knew that wouldn't work but like anyone else in life... if your boss(s) tell you to do something you bloody well do it. You don't fire someone for that.
Thats like telling a chef he needs to cook you a meal without any food...and if he can't then he's fired.
Set someone up to fail and they usually will. Set someone up for success, well thats a different story.

Now that he has gotten the green flag to tear this mother down and rebuild he's done a damn fine job in trading assets away and getting out from under a horrible contract.

Nonis gained a lot of respect from me for making these moves. The man doesn't have great luck signing FA's, but his trade history is pretty stellar.

The measure of a man isn't in his mistakes, it lies in his ability to admit them and fix them.

 

[freer]

There is only one problem for me with the trade. What happens if Horton gets cleared to play? That is a 6 mil contract which is just as bad as Clarksons.

 

[Bender]

There is only one problem for me with the trade. What happens if Horton gets cleared to play? That is a 6 mil contract which is just as bad as Clarksons.

He is so far from rehabilitation that it doesn't matter. I doubt he would come back if he couldn't contribute at a decent level, as many players have retired that way - Peter Forsberg for one.

If he gets that spinal fusion surgery he basically can't play again no matter what.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

There is only one problem for me with the trade. What happens if Horton gets cleared to play? That is a 6 mil contract which is just as bad as Clarksons.

A healthy Horton, heck Horton at 50% is 100x the player Clarkson is.

 

[ZBBM]

So it's his responsibility ... except not really, because he was answering to ridiculous expectations?

Or, rather, it's his responsibility but not solely his responsibility which, and I know this sort of nuance can be hard to wrap your head around, actually doesn't mitigate his responsibility.

No, I get you totally.  So basically we agree, and he needs to take the fall because it comes with the title.

Thats insane. Some fans act like a GM is supposed to be perfect in every move and deal.
He made a mistake, one that probaly was not totally his doing. Does anyone know for sure that the Clarkson signing was ONLY Nonis's doing? Nope. Was there a lot of pressure from many angles to sign him? media pressure, fan pressure and MLSE pressure.

He got told to put a winner on the ice with the assets he had on hand. He probably knew that wouldn't work but like anyone else in life... if your boss(s) tell you to do something you bloody well do it. You don't fire someone for that.
Thats like telling a chef he needs to cook you a meal without any food...and if he can't then he's fired.
Set someone up to fail and they usually will. Set someone up for success, well thats a different story.

Now that he has gotten the green flag to tear this mother down and rebuild he's done a damn fine job in trading assets away and getting out from under a horrible contract.

Nonis gained a lot of respect from me for making these moves. The man doesn't have great luck signing FA's, but his trade history is pretty stellar.

The measure of a man isn't in his mistakes, it lies in his ability to admit them and fix them.

This muddled thinking is hardly worth responding to, but: 

* "He got told to put a winner on the ice with the assets he had on hand" ... and then you defend him for violating this imagined instruction by going out and signing a stiff to an absurd contract.
* "Set someone up to fail and they usually will."  Tell me, why on earth would MLSE set up Nonis to fail?
* "Set someone up for success" ... what does that mean, if anything?  That MLSE can provide Nonis with more money than most GMs?  If so, he sure took advantage of it yesterday, but if your idea of "success" is signing somebody to a terrible contract, wasting 2 seasons trying to get value out of him, and then costing the team $26M to get out of it, then you've set a pretty low bar.

 

[bustaheims]

There is only one problem for me with the trade. What happens if Horton gets cleared to play? That is a 6 mil contract which is just as bad as Clarksons.

It's so unlikely to happen that it's not worth worrying about, but, even a hobbled Horton will produce more for the Leafs than Clarkson ever did.

 

[Kin]

* "He got told to put a winner on the ice with the assets he had on hand" ... and then you defend him for violating this imagined instruction by going out and signing a stiff to an absurd contract.
* "Set someone up to fail and they usually will."  Tell me, why on earth would MLSE set up Nonis to fail?
* "Set someone up for success" ... what does that mean, if anything?  That MLSE can provide Nonis with more money than most GMs?  If so, he sure took advantage of it yesterday, but if your idea of "success" is signing somebody to a terrible contract, wasting 2 seasons trying to get value out of him, and then costing the team $26M to get out of it, then you've set a pretty low bar.

Come on. You know this is about MLSE's refusal to go ahead with a rebuild which is in no way imagined.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There is only one problem for me with the trade. What happens if Horton gets cleared to play? That is a 6 mil contract which is just as bad as Clarksons.

It's no unlikely to happen that it's not worth worrying about, but, even a hobbled Horton will produce more for the Leafs than Clarkson ever did.

Horton was a consistent 50-point player. If he somehow miraculously came back from this injury and again somehow got back into game shape he'd actually be a pretty good player to have, cap hit and all.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Toronto?s capologist Brandon Pridham was apparently a significant help in getting this deal done in the sense he knows the NHL?s collective bargaining agreement and the LTIR ramifications better than almost anyone. He will also now be able get the Leafs to maximize their cap space with Horton on the books the next five years, as he has an intimate understanding how Boston and Philadelphia have navigated those waters with other players who have had career-ending injuries (Marc Savard and Chris Pronger).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-clarkson-trade-a-tale-of-nhls-haves-and-have-nots/article23226962/

I know basically everyone suspected as much, but good to read all the same.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

There is only one problem for me with the trade. What happens if Horton gets cleared to play? That is a 6 mil contract which is just as bad as Clarksons.

It's no unlikely to happen that it's not worth worrying about, but, even a hobbled Horton will produce more for the Leafs than Clarkson ever did.

Horton was a consistent 50-point player. If he somehow miraculously came back from this injury and again somehow got back into game shape he'd actually be a pretty good player to have, cap hit and all.

Just saw it in passing on Twitter but apparently Horton's recent even-strength point production per 60 minutes rivaled Kessel's.

 

[herman]

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/02/27/agent-pat-morris-on-david-clarkson-trade/

[Pat Morris'] involvement in getting the deal done:
I actually spoke to Dave Nonis about another thought that we had on David, probably a week ago. I started with Nonis on that dialogue that had some legs, then [it] died*. Then, Dave said, ?I might be working on something else, would you have interest in listening to that?? I said, ?sure, bring it to me when it gets serious.? It got serious the day before yesterday, we had some contact Wednesday, and then all day yesterday we worked through all the logistics that go into something like this.

[...]

"Credit Toronto for finding something and for Columbus solving a difficult issue they have with the injury. My understanding is they called Toronto at the start of the season on David and like some of the things he brings. It came to fruition about 5:30-6:00 yesterday"

* I assume this was Ottawa