Coach Mike Babcock

[Redleaf]

It looks very much like the players have tuned out the coach and might even be riding things out until he is out. Not sure. It looks dreadful.

That's just so crappy. I mean I don't think it's intentional, these guys should have enough pride in their play that they go out and play hard, but maybe they just won't give it that extra "something" for the coach.  I equate it to working for a crappy manager in your office, you still do your work, but you're not putting in the extra mile.  Maybe once they get a coach in there that they relate to better they'll loosen up and play better, we've seen it happen with other teams.  Anyway that's my hope, if they can't turn it around regardless of the coach than my deepest fear is realized and we've screwed the rebuild.

The core of this group is too young (and too talented) to have screwed the rebuild . If a new coach can?t get them motivated , than augmentation is in order . You keep Matthews , Marner, Tavares, Reilly and Freddie and swap most of the rest out .

 

[Frank E]

Dubas can trade players. 

I'm going to assume you realize that I don't need to be told this but still "Dubas should trade players" is not a specific criticism or a defined avenue for fixing what's wrong with the team. Which players? Who should they get in return? Is the aim to actually change the make-up of the team or hope that trading players kicks the remaining players in the butt?

I think maybe it's a combination of the 2. 

We're not close to the Leafs in terms of knowing if there are injury situations, or personality conflicts, or something else that is really affecting the outcomes here.

Assuming this is just a bit dysfunctional at the moment, and maybe some sort of paralysis through over-analysis, then maybe some fresh players would help, even if just 10 minutes+PK roles.

I was reading over at PPP this morning, and there was a couple of things written there that got my attention.

1.  There seems to be a lack of urgency and aggressiveness, or "give a damn", to the performances of many of the players on this team this year.  It's like they've been neutered.  Since Dubas sourced out a bunch of forward depth this summer, maybe he should just use it.  Maybe Agostino, Gaudet, Read (AHL deal), or Wilson can provide some spark by sheer adrenaline from the opportunity.  Other than Tavares and a bunch of them looking depressed when they're losing, none of them look to be kicking and screaming trying to make something/anything happen.

2.  What about this massive analytics department that they established...where are they?

 

[Highlander]

DiManno just wrote this in her article about the Leafs:

"A court-issued publication ban which I believe is still in place ? not going to risk it ? prevents me from expounding on why Sheldon Keefe isn?t the answer".
What the hell does this mean????  She says a couple of other bizarre things in her article.

 

[ZBBM]

The caveat is that with no more punt outs, the onus is on the defenders and the forwards to actually work together sorting out in the defensive zone.

Which is what they have never done, even pre-Babcock.  If your analysis is right, they need to dump this scheme and get personnel back there who play a simple defensive game, and yes more physical in a smart way.  Dubas went out and got the wrong defensemen for the wrong plan.

 

[herman]

The caveat is that with no more punt outs, the onus is on the defenders and the forwards to actually work together sorting out in the defensive zone.

Which is what they have never done, even pre-Babcock.  If your analysis is right, they need to dump this scheme and get personnel back there who play a simple defensive game, and yes more physical in a smart way.  Dubas went out and got the wrong defensemen for the wrong plan.

That's not my conclusion, per se. Performance and players are not static creatures as if they are permanently this that we are seeing today. Over the course of a season or a contract, players should grow and develop their games until their bodies start to fade away from being able to execute plays at former peak levels.

Are Muzzin and Barrie and Ceci bad players? I'd hazard that they are quite good at certain things and need work in other things, just like most players in the NHL. Some players are good at rising to the challenge, and some players need more time, and some players are already peaked and you don't know until you put them in those situations.

It's clear to me Barrie is being 'developed' on the defensive side a bit and it's exposing his one-dimensionality. In Colorado during the years he played there, I'm guessing they really had no choice but to simply lean on Barrie to be Barrie. Here, where there is ostensibly some depth the coaching staff and development team are trying to round out his game, but it's not easy in a match up situation. I still think he has the platform of assets to do it, much in the same way Nylander and Matthews have added defensive acumen to their games (albeit not as consistently yet), but with his age and contract situation the runway is short; the Leafs might need to treat him more like they treated JvR and just utilize him for scoring.

All the specifics aside, the idea behind Dubas' transactions are to add players with talent and skill and leverage the development system and coaching to instill more defensive instincts and develop skills where deficient. In other words, it's easier to teach defense and skating than it is to teach hockey-vision and puck handling confidence and other razzle-dazzle. I'm okay with making that bet instead of the reverse.

 

[Frank E]

Just to expand a bit on the analytics thing...if there was one position I would have thought they'd have some success using the big data department to find, it would be goaltending.

 

[Sunbro]

The caveat is that with no more punt outs, the onus is on the defenders and the forwards to actually work together sorting out in the defensive zone.

Which is what they have never done, even pre-Babcock.  If your analysis is right, they need to dump this scheme and get personnel back there who play a simple defensive game, and yes more physical in a smart way.  Dubas went out and got the wrong defensemen for the wrong plan.

What is a simple defensive game? That's just a cognitive bias for the inability to explain what needs to change.

"Wrong plan", remember the plan comes from the top down, not the bottom up. Dubas defines the plan, and it's the responsibility of Babcock to get onboard.

Babcock wanted more right handed defensemen, Dubas got him Barrie. Replaced right handed Zaitsev, who wanted to leave, with a right handed Ceci.

The bottom line is our team is underperforming to their skill level, and its thats the onus of the coach to rectify.

 

[Highlander]

I was just thinking, it was only one and half games ago, that I wrote "Leafs just played their best period of the season" and really meaning it.  Then the wheels fell off.  Was the second period in Boston an abberation or was this the true Maple Leafs waiting to break out?  Very bizarre.

 

[Zee]

DiManno just wrote this in her article about the Leafs:

"A court-issued publication ban which I believe is still in place ? not going to risk it ? prevents me from expounding on why Sheldon Keefe isn?t the answer".
What the hell does this mean????  She says a couple of other bizarre things in her article.

I assume she?s referring to the past association with David Frost which was a long time ago and Keefe has been open about and put in his past. I wouldn?t put it past Rosie to bring up old court cases and vile rumours about people because she?s like that.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/andrewberkshire/status/1196470576195473408

Via SportLogiq data. But we are likely extra super bad for B2Bs

 

[Kin]

Via SportLogiq data. But we are likely extra super bad for B2Bs

That is a question I sort of have though. How many more points would the Leafs have had to have from all of the Hutchinson/Kasiskuo losses for literally none of this to be happening?

 

[Frank E]

Via SportLogiq data. But we are likely extra super bad for B2Bs

That is a question I sort of have though. How many more points would the Leafs have had to have from all of the Hutchinson/Kasiskuo losses for literally none of this to be happening?

3 ROW's out of those 6 starts and the Leafs are back in the top-10 in the league in points.

 

[herman]

That is a question I sort of have though. How many more points would the Leafs have had to have from all of the Hutchinson/Kasiskuo losses for literally none of this to be happening?

I don't think that's even the point of contention for people. It feels like, and this is just my subjective read on the situation, people saw the roster as composed and the money rolled out and they're expecting blowouts for the Leafs every game.

 

[Highlander]

DiManno just wrote this in her article about the Leafs:

"A court-issued publication ban which I believe is still in place ? not going to risk it ? prevents me from expounding on why Sheldon Keefe isn?t the answer".
What the hell does this mean????  She says a couple of other bizarre things in her article.

I assume she?s referring to the past association with David Frost which was a long time ago and Keefe has been open about and put in his past. I wouldn?t put it past Rosie to bring up old court cases and vile rumours about people because she?s like that.

Thanks Zee, whey would she write something so frikken stupid?  Did the Leafs really send Pat Burns a cake that said "we hate you", is that for real?  Her suggesting trading Nylander is pathetic and the most stupid thing in the article.  Only given he has probably been the best Leaf in the last 5 games.

 

[Kin]

That is a question I sort of have though. How many more points would the Leafs have had to have from all of the Hutchinson/Kasiskuo losses for literally none of this to be happening?

I don't think that's even the point of contention for people. It feels like, and this is just my subjective read on the situation, people saw the roster as composed and the money rolled out and they're expecting blowouts for the Leafs every game.

Whether or not that's the specific point of contention, if the Leafs had more points the narrative would be drastically different.

 

[herman]

That is a question I sort of have though. How many more points would the Leafs have had to have from all of the Hutchinson/Kasiskuo losses for literally none of this to be happening?

I don't think that's even the point of contention for people. It feels like, and this is just my subjective read on the situation, people saw the roster as composed and the money rolled out and they're expecting blowouts for the Leafs every game.

Whether or not that's the specific point of contention, if the Leafs had more points the narrative would be drastically different.

Yes. Even if they were empty-calorie wins.

 

[Frank E]

That is a question I sort of have though. How many more points would the Leafs have had to have from all of the Hutchinson/Kasiskuo losses for literally none of this to be happening?

I don't think that's even the point of contention for people. It feels like, and this is just my subjective read on the situation, people saw the roster as composed and the money rolled out and they're expecting blowouts for the Leafs every game.

Whether or not that's the specific point of contention, if the Leafs had more points the narrative would be drastically different.

Yes. Even if they were empty-calorie wins.

And I think a lot of them have been.

I don't think people are saying that they're a back-up goalie away from contention today.

 

[Zee]

DiManno just wrote this in her article about the Leafs:

"A court-issued publication ban which I believe is still in place ? not going to risk it ? prevents me from expounding on why Sheldon Keefe isn?t the answer".
What the hell does this mean????  She says a couple of other bizarre things in her article.

I assume she?s referring to the past association with David Frost which was a long time ago and Keefe has been open about and put in his past. I wouldn?t put it past Rosie to bring up old court cases and vile rumours about people because she?s like that.

Thanks Zee, whey would she write something so frikken stupid?  Did the Leafs really send Pat Burns a cake that said "we hate you", is that for real?  Her suggesting trading Nylander is pathetic and the most stupid thing in the article.  Only given he has probably been the best Leaf in the last 5 games.

There are many reasons I don't like reading Rosie Dimanno articles.

 

[Chris]

That is a question I sort of have though. How many more points would the Leafs have had to have from all of the Hutchinson/Kasiskuo losses for literally none of this to be happening?

I don't think that's even the point of contention for people. It feels like, and this is just my subjective read on the situation, people saw the roster as composed and the money rolled out and they're expecting blowouts for the Leafs every game.

Whether or not that's the specific point of contention, if the Leafs had more points the narrative would be drastically different.

Yes. Even if they were empty-calorie wins.

And I think a lot of them have been.

I don't think people are saying that they're a back-up goalie away from contention today.

I heard or read a stat the other day, I haven't looked at the actual numbers to verify this but it was stated that the Leafs were 27th in the league in points percentage. There are many teams behind them with games in hand that could easily be ahead of the Leafs once those games are made up.

Is that acceptable to anyone? I hear a lot about advanced stats and new players and injuries but come on, we're 20+ games into the season now. Every team has injuries (look at that Pittsburgh roster that mauled us the other night), every team has some roster turnover. In the calendar year 2019 the Leafs are either at or below .500 now, with a points percentage that would not make the playoffs. And if you actually watch games, you can easily see that nothing is getting better, with the possible exception of Matthews and especially Nylander. Same poor dzone play, same lazy stick waving/lack of physical play. And now we've added a reduction in good scoring chances in favor of point shots.

Every so often the Leafs turn it on for stretches of games (usually when they're behind) but the majority of this season has featured indifferent play. I don't know exactly where the problem is, it's probably a combination of things, but even if we had 2 or 3 extra wins I don't think things would really look much better - at least for people really watching what's going on out there.

 

[Frank E]

Is that acceptable to anyone?

What do you mean by acceptable?