Contracts for the Big-3

[sickbeast]

TSN posted today that they have a source telling them that Nylander still has not budged off his $8 million figure.

 

[Highlander]

ight now it seems Nylander is bit mercenary and that is leaving a lot of fans with a bad taste in their mouths.

Those fans should probably grow up.

Absolutely. Nylander is doing nothing wrong and neither are the Leafs. It will work out in the end. Fans need to chill.

I never said he was doing anything wrong, he has that right, you either buy in or you don't, no judgement at all. Can't blame anyone for trying to max their income at all.

I am just old school and remember when most hockey players sold cars or insurance or started a side business to make a living during the summer, or Bobby Baun playing on a broken ankle to score the winner.  Things and time change.

 

[cabber24]

TSN posted today that they have a source telling them that Nylander still has not budged off his $8 million figure.

I doubt they know anything.

 

[Strangelove]

TSN posted today that they have a source telling them that Nylander still has not budged off his $8 million figure.

I doubt they know anything.

Why? At some point Nylander will start to face reputational risks (whether or not justified), and leaking this kind of info is a pretty good way to ratchet up the pressure in that respect.

 

[dappleganger]

I don't like Draisaitl as a comparison for Willy. Would anyone on this board take Nylander over Draisaitl at the same cap number?

 

[AvroArrow]

Assuming the Leafs have told teams they're not trading Nylander (which was rumoured to be what they told the Canes), at what point do the Leafs start serious trade negotiations with other teams regarding Nylander?

Do they ride it out to November, December, the new year?

If, for instance, they wait until the new year, there's always the chance they don't complete a trade before the trade deadline (since trades take time).

 

[Kin]

I am just old school and remember when most hockey players sold cars or insurance or started a side business to make a living during the summer, or Bobby Baun playing on a broken ankle to score the winner.  Things and time change.

Yeah, those guys didn't actually like that situation. It's why guys like Ted Lindsay fought so hard to change things.

 

[princedpw]

Perhaps this has already been posted, but from the Toronto Star:

Now, the rules around restricted free agency were different then. But make no mistake. At age 22, precisely Nylander?s age, Shanahan looked out for Shanahan. He became the seventh-highest-paid player in the NHL, earning more in his first year in St. Louis than Mark Messier would earn winning the Hart Trophy for the New York Rangers. And as for pursuing the Stanley Cup? Partly as a result of the price St. Louis paid to acquire Shanahan ? which included captain Scott Stevens in a controversial compensation award ? the Blues lost in the first round of the playoffs in three of Shanahan?s four seasons in St. Louis. They never made it past the second round. In other words, Shanahan?s priority in his youth was building his fortune, not his legend.

Shanahan?s comments are a mistake.  It is unethical for him to twist the truth. Also, it simply seems to be a strategic mistake to argue any player should take less than they are worth.  That would seem unfair to me if I were a player.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Shanahan?s comments are a mistake.

Yeah, maybe he came on a bit strong in that department. If he had just said something along the lines that "there's benefits other than money to be part of a strong franchise, and we hope our RFAs buy into that" and kind of left it there, it would have been more palatable.

Ultimately, I think the reason he spoke out was because he wanted everyone to know (players and agents included) that the whole management team was firmly behind the GM.

 

[princedpw]

Shanahan?s comments are a mistake.

Yeah, maybe he came on a bit strong in that department. If he had just said something along the lines that "there's benefits other than money to be part of a strong franchise, and we hope our RFAs buy into that" and kind of left it there, it would have been more palatable.

Ultimately, I think the reason he spoke out was because he wanted everyone to know (players and agents included) that the whole management team was firmly behind the GM.

If he wanted to support Dubas (doing so certainly makes a lot of sense), then he could do that directly by saying that he believes the contract offered Nylander is fair.  It seems to me, he has unnecessarily ceded this key argument ? he has said the contract offered is unfair but nylander has to take it anyway.

 

[L K]

The other disingenuous comment from shanny was that Detroit was blatantly overpaying for guys because there was no cap.  His boasting was garbage.

 

[sickbeast]

Assuming the Leafs have told teams they're not trading Nylander (which was rumoured to be what they told the Canes), at what point do the Leafs start serious trade negotiations with other teams regarding Nylander?

Do they ride it out to November, December, the new year?

If, for instance, they wait until the new year, there's always the chance they don't complete a trade before the trade deadline (since trades take time).

How does that work?  Let's say they trade him to Carolina.  I'm guessing Carolina would work out a deal with Nylander prior to making the trade?

I actually think this type of deal could be a win-win situation.  As much as I really like Nylander, he does block guys like Leivo from the lineup who, while clearly not even in the same ballpark, they could turn out to be useful players and contribute to the team.  It could also solve the Leafs' salary cap problem.  They are going to need to start churning guys and replenishing them with picks.  As sad as it is to say, it could make sense for the team to take a more low-end defenseman and some picks in exchange for Nylander.  I guess the big issue with that is that it kind of takes the wind out of the sails for this season when the Leafs are cup favorites.  That is the true leverage that Nylander has right now.  He puts the team over the top.  Without him there are several other teams that are as good if not better.

 

[herman]

Assuming the Leafs have told teams they're not trading Nylander (which was rumoured to be what they told the Canes), at what point do the Leafs start serious trade negotiations with other teams regarding Nylander?

Do they ride it out to November, December, the new year?

If, for instance, they wait until the new year, there's always the chance they don't complete a trade before the trade deadline (since trades take time).

If unsigned by December 1, Nylander would be ineligible to play for the season.

 

[hockeyfan1]

The longer the Leafs take, the better (in a way) for Nylander:

[tweet]1047959953066143745[/tweet]

Basically, as Herman pointed out, if Nylander isn't signed by Dec. 1st, it would render him ineligible to suit up for the rest of the season.  But, the longer it is taking for the Leafs to sign him, the better for Nylander, and the worse for the Leafs.

The money Nylander loses will need to be made up to him:

...when a deal is finally concluded ? say it?s $7.5-million for seven years, the AAV is going to have to be bumped up to make him whole for the salary he?s not collecting at the moment. Take that $7.5-million and make it $7.85-million.

If it's to be believed that the Nylander camp is asking in the $8.5M+ "Draisaitl" range, and the Leafs have been reportedly offering in the $6-7M:

Call it a two million dollar difference per year for the sake of discussion. If this is a six to eight year contract, the dispute is over something between $12-million and $16-million.
...Toronto will give you an AAV of $6.5-million on Dec. 1...you?re basically risking $2-million or so for a potential payoff of between $12-million and $16-million. Even though Nylander might be light on leverage at the moment, it?s pretty easy to see why he?d be willing to wait. Call it an investment of $2-million or so with a potentially very high rate of return.

A real nightmare for Dubas & co., would be when the other Big Two contracts are up -- Matthews & Marner next summer, and they both pull a Nylander (with Nylander remaining unsigned).
No, don't even think about it Toronto fans, but let's be realistic here.  Considering the situation with Nylander, if he does not  get signed, then, as explained above, he will have had leverage and perhaps so will Matthews & Marner see it the same way.

 

[AvroArrow]

Assuming the Leafs have told teams they're not trading Nylander (which was rumoured to be what they told the Canes), at what point do the Leafs start serious trade negotiations with other teams regarding Nylander?

Do they ride it out to November, December, the new year?

If, for instance, they wait until the new year, there's always the chance they don't complete a trade before the trade deadline (since trades take time).

If unsigned by December 1, Nylander would be ineligible to play for the season.

Ah, yes, a good point I had forgotten about.  So it seems the Leafs have a December 1st deadline to decide what to do if he continues to remain unsigned.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Listening to everyone from Ray Ferraro to Bobby Mac, Nylander's only leverage comes if the Leafs struggle. He has no power here. Every "expert" says he's not worth 7 million a year so if he doesn't come down in the ask, the Leafs can simply let him sit. If he sits the year you honestly think the Leafs will magically come up to his ask? He will never make up the lost money if he does that. As for Marner and Matthews, Marner may be a bit of a struggle but Matthews won't. He's getting paid because he's their best player.
If every player needed to be signed where would Nylander fit in order of importance? He's 5th or later in my books so while important, he's not a must sign guy.

 

[Bullfrog]

How is he not worth $7M?

Though I understand everyone's human, I'm skeptical about how much the Leafs current performance has on any negotiations.

 

[Zee]

How is he not worth $7M?

Though I understand everyone's human, I'm skeptical about how much the Leafs current performance has on any negotiations.

If Leafs wait until after October 15th they can give him 7x7 and the cap hit for subsequent years is lower than 7

 

[herman]

How is he not worth $7M?

Though I understand everyone's human, I'm skeptical about how much the Leafs current performance has on any negotiations.

If Leafs wait until after October 15th they can give him 7x7 and the cap hit for subsequent years is lower than 7

I would?ve 8x8d him but I understand we are trying to establish a program of salary tiers for a bumper crop of elite youth.

 

[Highlander]

I am just old school and remember when most hockey players sold cars or insurance or started a side business to make a living during the summer, or Bobby Baun playing on a broken ankle to score the winner.  Things and time change.

Yeah, those guys didn't actually like that situation. It's why guys like Ted Lindsay fought so hard to change things.

And its great that he did