Contracts for the Big-3

[Kin]

Hainsey Isn't signed. I simply asked if the Leafs could sign the 3 and still fill out the roster. The simple answer is no,  unless, one of the 3 signs a lower bridge deal or we subtract an already signed player. It's not an ideal situation but we require a move. Now if it gets to July1st and soneone goes all in on an offer sheet for Matthews we are in big trouble for more than just next year..

Believe it or not but this is one of those rare times where you shouldn't just reflexively disagree with everything said to you. You're wrong. You don't really understand things here.

If the cap next year is 83.5 million and Matthews, Marner and Nylander sign for a combined 28.5 million(12, 9, 7.5) then the Leafs would have to fill 9 roster spots with about 11 million dollars in cap space once Horton is on LTIR. Tight, but feasible. So, again, it is entirely dependent on what guys sign for and what the cap is.

 

[Bates]

A few big if's but if July 1st has Matthews unsigned and IF AZ still has a team and IF AZ has an owner with money I find it really hard to believe tgere woukdn't be a massive offer sheet. I have no idea IF Matthews wants to go home??

I think a lot of this hinges on how otherworldly Matthews really is.  If you could go back in time and offer 4 first rounders for Gretzky, you would do it.  So I would say to the Leafs, pay him whatever necessary that this doesn't happen.

 

[Bates]

Isn't it 10 roster spots or does Horton count towards 23? I'm not reflexively disagreeing with everything but I'm also not seeing how we sign either our RFA's or their replacements for an average not much more than a million? I also don't know if there are bonuses to be counted? 

Hainsey Isn't signed. I simply asked if the Leafs could sign the 3 and still fill out the roster. The simple answer is no,  unless, one of the 3 signs a lower bridge deal or we subtract an already signed player. It's not an ideal situation but we require a move. Now if it gets to July1st and soneone goes all in on an offer sheet for Matthews we are in big trouble for more than just next year..

Believe it or not but this is one of those rare times where you shouldn't just reflexively disagree with everything said to you. You're wrong. You don't really understand things here.

If the cap next year is 83.5 million and Matthews, Marner and Nylander sign for a combined 28.5 million(12, 9, 7.5) then the Leafs would have to fill 9 roster spots with about 11 million dollars in cap space once Horton is on LTIR. Tight, but feasible. So, again, it is entirely dependent on what guys sign for and what the cap is.

 

[Kin]

I'm not reflexively disagreeing with everything but I'm also not seeing how we sign either our RFA's or their replacements for an average not much more than a million?

Well, now you're moving the goalposts. Before it was just maintaining the current contracts on the roster, now it's signing all of the RFA's who aren't under contract for next year.

But, again, the answer is "Depends on what the cap is and depends on what everyone signs for". There is no doubt that keeping current contracts, which is what you ask,is possible for next year. Re-signing all of the RFAs, who do not have contracts for next year, will likewise be trickier but again, dependent on what people sign for and what the cap is.

There is no simpler answer to this question than that.

 

[Bates]

I moved nothing, in order to have a roster you have to either sign your players or sign their replacements?  I don't think we want over half the team as entry level or under a million vets.

I'm not reflexively disagreeing with everything but I'm also not seeing how we sign either our RFA's or their replacements for an average not much more than a million?

Well, now you're moving the goalposts. Before it was just maintaining the current contracts on the roster, now it's signing all of the RFA's who aren't under contract for next year.

But, again, the answer is "Depends on what the cap is and depends on what everyone signs for". There is no doubt that keeping current contracts, which is what you ask,is possible for next year. Re-signing all of the RFAs, who do not have contracts for next year, will likewise be trickier but again, dependent on what people sign for and what the cap is.

There is no simpler answer to this question than that.

 

[Kin]

And the Leafs, with MNM signed, would have 14 players under contract for next year.

9 Forwards:

Nylander
Matthews
Marner
Tavares
Kadri
Brown
Hyman
Marleau
Gauthier

4 defensemen:

Rielly
Zaitsev
Dermott
Holl

1 Goalie:

Andersen

9 + 4 + 1 = 14. A full NHL roster is 23. 23 - 14 is 9, not 10.

If you're going to ask questions, maybe give a shot at listening to the guys trying to give you the answers.

 

[Kin]

I moved nothing, in order to have a roster you have to either sign your players or sign their replacements?

"Can we fill out a roster with MNM signed without losing any current contracts" and "Can we fill out a roster with MNM signed, not lose any current contracts and sign our RFAs" are two different questions.

 

[Bates]

My error was confusing the 23 and 24 for some reason. It might also help to be a little less arrogant as well when having a discussion. quote author=Nik the Trik link=topic=5002.msg337830#msg337830 date=1539714841]
And the Leafs, with MNM signed, would have 14 players under contract for next year.

9 Forwards:

Nylander
Matthews
Marner
Tavares
Kadri
Brown
Hyman
Marleau
Gauthier

4 defensemen:

Rielly
Zaitsev
Dermott
Holl

1 Goalie:

Andersen

9 + 4 + 1 = 14. A full NHL roster is 23. 23 - 14 is 9, not 10.

If you're going to ask questions, maybe give a shot at listening to the guys trying to give you the answers.
[/quote]

 

[Coco-puffs]

My error was confusing the 23 and 24 for some reason. It might also help to be a little less arrogant as well when having a discussion.

And the Leafs, with MNM signed, would have 14 players under contract for next year.

9 Forwards:

Nylander
Matthews
Marner
Tavares
Kadri
Brown
Hyman
Marleau
Gauthier

4 defensemen:

Rielly
Zaitsev
Dermott
Holl

1 Goalie:

Andersen

9 + 4 + 1 = 14. A full NHL roster is 23. 23 - 14 is 9, not 10.

If you're going to ask questions, maybe give a shot at listening to the guys trying to give you the answers.

Also, you don't have to carry 23 either.  You can go down to 20 if you want (see:  Senators right now), which is the league mandated minimum. 

If you are cap-crunched, then I would roster 22:  13F + 7D + 2G.  So now you only have to get 8 players signed for 11M or so (depending on cap increase).

 

[sickbeast]

People are starting to ask questions in terms of why Auston Matthews does not have a contract by now.  The leaked rumor about a potential five year contract for him is also somewhat puzzling.  What I'm wondering is, have the big three essentially unionized?  Hear me out for a minute here.  If Matthews does indeed take a five year deal instead of eight, that would likely be for a significantly lower AAV.  I'm wondering if these guys are essentially teaming up so that there is room under the cap for all three of them to be signed.  Matthews taking a five year deal at a lower AAV essentially gives the Leafs five cracks at winning the cup.  It could turn out great.  Then after that, cap space will either open up, or he will be free to look elsewhere, at a time in his career when he will be at a good age to make a boatload of money.  AFAIK other superstars like Sydney Crosby have gone with similar five year deals when they were a RFA.

I'm also wondering if Nylander can hold out as long as possible to give the team more cap space in the future, and if the Leafs can essentially make it up to him by giving him a bigger contract to compensate for the difference.  It could be a win-win situation and I wouldn't put it past the whole lot of them.  This could all be smoke and mirrors.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

People are starting to ask questions in terms of why Auston Matthews does not have a contract by now.  The leaked rumor about a potential five year contract for him is also somewhat puzzling.  What I'm wondering is, have the big three essentially unionized? 

Not sure if I follow. Players usually get more for shorter deals, not longer, and I'm pretty sure Matthews is going to get paid close to the McDavid standard regardless of the term.

Regarding unionizing, I highly doubt anything like that. These are young men that play hockey very very well. I doubt they're too engaged in anything other than that- that's why they leave all the rest to their agents to look after their interests. And I doubt any agent, or parent, or anyone advising these kids are going to suggest looking out for anyone but themselves.

I like the entertaining theory though!

 

[sickbeast]

People are starting to ask questions in terms of why Auston Matthews does not have a contract by now.  The leaked rumor about a potential five year contract for him is also somewhat puzzling.  What I'm wondering is, have the big three essentially unionized? 

Not sure if I follow. Players usually get more for shorter deals, not longer, and I'm pretty sure Matthews is going to get paid close to the McDavid standard regardless of the term.

Regarding unionizing, I highly doubt anything like that. These are young men that play hockey very very well. I doubt they're too engaged in anything other than that- that's why they leave all the rest to their agents to look after their interests. And I doubt any agent, or parent, or anyone advising these kids are going to suggest looking out for anyone but themselves.

I like the entertaining theory though!

They are saying that if Matthews signs a five year contract it will be closer to a bridge deal and it will have a lower AAV compared to an eight year deal.

 

[mr grieves]

But more to the point with the Kessel trade, if you give me 100 dollars for a 10 dollar raffle ticket and you end up winning 125 bucks with it, did you win the trade or did things just sort of ultimately work out for you?

If the Islanders or Red Wings offered you their 2019 1st and 2nd and their 2020 1st for Nylander, would you not take it?

With the Leafs as close as they are to competing seriously I would probably not choose to leave such a big part of their future up to something entirely beyond their control.

I dunno. I sort of agreed with your earlier suggestion that, if the Leafs end up trading Nylander, doing so for a pile of prospects and picks -- or a couple of high-value assets -- would make sense. I think you might've been referring to having flexible assets that could be converted into a top-four RHD, but I found the idea attractive because I think it would bring some parts of their future more within their control. High quality complementary players on their ELCs and second contracts would help extend their window of contention beyond the expiration of Rielly's and Kadri's contracts. 

 

[Kin]

I dunno. I sort of agreed with your earlier suggestion that, if the Leafs end up trading Nylander, doing so for a pile of prospects and picks -- or a couple of high-value assets -- would make sense. I think you might've been referring to having flexible assets that could be converted into a top-four RHD, but I found the idea attractive because I think it would bring some parts of their future more within their control. High quality complementary players on their ELCs and second contracts would help extend their window of contention beyond the expiration of Rielly's and Kadri's contracts.

I think if I were going to deal Nylander I'd do it with him signed and next off-season so that whatever you got for him you could be as certain of as possible. Knowing where the draft picks were, another year of lead time on any prospects, etc.

I'm not overly opposed to the Leafs actually making use of the assets they'd get in such a trade(although I think it lessens the odds of them "winning" the trade in a conventional sense) but again, I think the more information you have on a trade before you make it the better. I mean, forget draft order or lottery results...who's to even say about the strength of those drafts? There are drafts where the #1 or #2 picks are pretty sketchy. I know Hughes is supposed to be the real deal but after that? If the pick is in the 5-7 range do we have any idea what will be available there?

You can hit your target shooting blind but you're just as likely to hit your foot.

 

[Redleaf]

Should we change the title of this thread to the Big-4? If Kapenin?s play keeps trending on the current projectory, his next contract is going to be up there .

 

[Zee]

James Mirtle is saying they're heading towards a bridge deal based on the sources he's talked to.


https://theathletic.com/594581/2018/10/17/mirtle-william-nylander-stalemate-with-the-maple-leafs-appears-headed-for-a-bridge-deal-solution/

 

[dappleganger]

James Mirtle is saying they're heading towards a bridge deal based on the sources he's talked to.


https://theathletic.com/594581/2018/10/17/mirtle-william-nylander-stalemate-with-the-maple-leafs-appears-headed-for-a-bridge-deal-solution/

It's probably best for Nylander to go bridge. Has worked out well for other players in the past.

Bridge isn't ideal for the Leafs.

 

[cabber24]

I want to keep him, let?s get a third line going... L1: Matthews/Nylander, L2: Tavares/Marner, L3: Kadri/Kappi

Flip Kapanen with Nylander and I do think we have a better set of line, since any RW with Matthews will score a ton... let Kappy build up some confidence in his game.

Can we PLEASE let Kapanen play the season on Matthews wing for the entire season so he can put up 20 goals - 40 assists and we can have a debate next season how he's worth $8m/season.  ;D

Seriously though, you need to keep the reins pulled back on Johnsson and Kapanen so we can have some decent support at a decent cap hit. Kappi gets 70 points and he's gone.

If Kappy gets 70 points that means he's played with Matthews all year and Nylander isn't on the team anymore. If that happens so be it. Kappy will come in cheaper then Nylander.
[/quote]
I got mocked for this comment just a few days ago and now everyone is talking about it... yes 70 points is a lot, I tend to embellish to make a point. My point is Kappi is pricing himself out of Toronto. Nylander better sign low because the salary is just going to Kappi instead.

Johnsson also has great ability and I am somewhat relieved to have him muzzled a bit on the 4th line. I could see him outperforming his next contract in a big way.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

James Mirtle is saying they're heading towards a bridge deal based on the sources he's talked to.

https://theathletic.com/594581/2018/10/17/mirtle-william-nylander-stalemate-with-the-maple-leafs-appears-headed-for-a-bridge-deal-solution/

At this point, I'm fine with that. It's clear a long-term deal isn't going to work out at this point unless both signs agree to move into the $7mil area, which given how long this has taken is probably not happening.

It might not have been the first option, but if the cap savings are significant enough in the next couple of seasons that it gives the Leafs the chance to keep Gardiner (or sign/acquire another top-4 defenceman to replace him next season) then it could be worth it.

 

[cabber24]

James Mirtle is saying they're heading towards a bridge deal based on the sources he's talked to.


https://theathletic.com/594581/2018/10/17/mirtle-william-nylander-stalemate-with-the-maple-leafs-appears-headed-for-a-bridge-deal-solution/

Any article started with the precursor "...what I've been able to discern after to talking to as many sources as possible..." needs to be taken as 100% pure speculation. Mirtle doesn`t know anything. All Nylander articles should be considered opinion pieces.