Contracts for the Big-3

[cabber24]

Nylander's contract dispute was the best thing that ever happened to Kasperi Kapanen.  He doesn't have the same elite level of offensive talent as Nylander, however Kapanen is faster, harder working, much better defensively, bigger and more physical, and more of a team player.  I really like him.

Kapanen reminds me of Hyman and Marner in the sense that he has a relentless work ethic.  He's a fast skater also.  That's the type of player you want on your team, IMO.

It feels like the way this is playing out and the timing of all potential signings have given all of our future RFAs so much ammunition to ask for more.

 

[Bender]

Nylander's contract dispute was the best thing that ever happened to Kasperi Kapanen.  He doesn't have the same elite level of offensive talent as Nylander, however Kapanen is faster, harder working, much better defensively, bigger and more physical, and more of a team player.  I really like him.

Kapanen reminds me of Hyman and Marner in the sense that he has a relentless work ethic.  He's a fast skater also.  That's the type of player you want on your team, IMO.

It feels like the way this is playing out and the timing of all potential signings have given all of our future RFAs so much ammunition to ask for more.

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I'm sure Michael Nylander thinks differently because he feels like he's been hung out to dry by some teams - there's no guarantee you'll still stick as part of a core. But I think circumstances have changed a lot since the start of the cap. Players don't move around as much as they used to.

 

[Bullfrog]

Nylander's contract dispute was the best thing that ever happened to Kasperi Kapanen.  He doesn't have the same elite level of offensive talent as Nylander, however Kapanen is faster, harder working, much better defensively, bigger and more physical, and more of a team player.  I really like him.

Kapanen reminds me of Hyman and Marner in the sense that he has a relentless work ethic.  He's a fast skater also.  That's the type of player you want on your team, IMO.

How do we know Kapanen is harder working and more of a team player?

In terms of size, Hockeydb has Nylander at 6'-0", 191 lb and Kapanen at 6'-1", 192 lb. That's pretty negligible. I also question if he's much better defensively. He's a great penalty killer, but that doesn't equate to overall defensive ability. Nylander is fantastic at stripping the puck from other players and has historically faced much harder competition.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I also question if he's much better defensively. He's a great penalty killer, but that doesn't equate to overall defensive ability.

I really think people confuse these two things way too much. Exhibit A: I thought Jay McClement was a pretty good penalty killer when he was here, but I also thought he was terrible defensively at 5-on-5.

edit: and really Nylander would probably make for a pretty good PKer too if he was ever given a chance, especially given what we know about his elite stick checking talents.

 

[Bullfrog]

Yep. Just watched all of Nylander's goals on youtube (it was beautiful). Several come directly from his stick checks.

 

[Kin]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million?

Someone really should have pointed this out to the owners. We could have skipped a few lockouts.

 

[Frank E]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million?

Someone really should have pointed this out to the owners. We could have skipped a few lockouts.

It's different with franchises, in that asset values are multiples of earnings. 

A $1m increase in yearly profitability can mean an increase in the value of the asset of 10 times that amount. 

 

[Kin]

It's different with franchises, in that asset values are multiples of earnings. 

A $1m increase in yearly profitability can mean an increase in the value of the asset of 10 times that amount.

Ah, I see. So the difference between 50 and 70 million isn't an appreciably different life but the difference between 2.65 and 2.66 billion dollars is a pretty important gap.

The NHL could blink out of existence tomorrow and everyone who owned an NHL team would still be so wealthy that none of their children or children's children would ever have to ever think about money outside of as an abstract concept.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Eat the rich.

 

[sickbeast]

Nylander's contract dispute was the best thing that ever happened to Kasperi Kapanen.  He doesn't have the same elite level of offensive talent as Nylander, however Kapanen is faster, harder working, much better defensively, bigger and more physical, and more of a team player.  I really like him.

Kapanen reminds me of Hyman and Marner in the sense that he has a relentless work ethic.  He's a fast skater also.  That's the type of player you want on your team, IMO.

Starting to look like a great deal for Kessel,  Freddie A and Kapi came out of it.

I agree.  It's shocking.  The real miracle deal was getting rid of Phaneuf though.  I never thought that would be possible, let alone to get the assets back that we got.

 

[sickbeast]

Nylander's contract dispute was the best thing that ever happened to Kasperi Kapanen.  He doesn't have the same elite level of offensive talent as Nylander, however Kapanen is faster, harder working, much better defensively, bigger and more physical, and more of a team player.  I really like him.

Kapanen reminds me of Hyman and Marner in the sense that he has a relentless work ethic.  He's a fast skater also.  That's the type of player you want on your team, IMO.

How do we know Kapanen is harder working and more of a team player?

In terms of size, Hockeydb has Nylander at 6'-0", 191 lb and Kapanen at 6'-1", 192 lb. That's pretty negligible. I also question if he's much better defensively. He's a great penalty killer, but that doesn't equate to overall defensive ability. Nylander is fantastic at stripping the puck from other players and has historically faced much harder competition.

Just from the eye test, Kapanen backchecks more.  And he's faster.  He's relentless going after the puck and creating turnovers.  He reminds me of Marner in that way.  I just don't see that from Nylander.  Perhaps he does more subtle things the fly under the radar.  He is certainly a smoother type of player making really slick plays.  The two are very different.  I'm not trying to say that Nylander is not good.  Simply that Kapanen is playing outstanding hockey and he's playing a style that I really like and appreciate, personally.  I'm going to say that Kapanen, Marner, and Hyman are my three favorite players on the team.  I like Andersen also.  And don't get me wrong, Auston Matthews is incredible (not to mention Tavares).  I just really like the players that work hard, backcheck, and create turnovers.  The Leafs are fortunate to have at least three players on the team that can do that on a high level.

 

[Frank E]

It's different with franchises, in that asset values are multiples of earnings. 

A $1m increase in yearly profitability can mean an increase in the value of the asset of 10 times that amount.

Ah, I see. So the difference between 50 and 70 million isn't an appreciably different life but the difference between 2.65 and 2.66 billion dollars is a pretty important gap.

The NHL could blink out of existence tomorrow and everyone who owned an NHL team would still be so wealthy that none of their children or children's children would ever have to ever think about money outside of as an abstract concept.

Put the knives away.

I was simply pointing out the significant difference in dollars, not lifestyle.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I mean, if you were negotiating your salary at work, and at the end of your career you could earn 1 million or 1.1 million would you not be looking for that 1.1 million? If you have 30 years of work, that extra $100k would only work out to an extra $3,333 a year. Not a big deal...per year.

I don't think we can fault anyone for trying to get what they think they are worth. It's their decision to not make anything if the company decides not to pay them.

 

[sickbeast]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I mean, if you were negotiating your salary at work, and at the end of your career you could earn 1 million or 1.1 million would you not be looking for that 1.1 million? If you have 30 years of work, that extra $100k would only work out to an extra $3,333 a year. Not a big deal...per year.

I don't think we can fault anyone for trying to get what they think they are worth. It's their decision to not make anything if the company decides not to pay them.

I definitely hear you, and in my own way I truly respect Nylander for trying to stick it to "the Man", but really this is a fruitless fight.  Nylander is only hurting himself and it's going to earn him a ticket out of town.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I mean, if you were negotiating your salary at work, and at the end of your career you could earn 1 million or 1.1 million would you not be looking for that 1.1 million? If you have 30 years of work, that extra $100k would only work out to an extra $3,333 a year. Not a big deal...per year.

I don't think we can fault anyone for trying to get what they think they are worth. It's their decision to not make anything if the company decides not to pay them.

I definitely hear you, and in my own way I truly respect Nylander for trying to stick it to "the Man", but really this is a fruitless fight.  Nylander is only hurting himself and it's going to earn him a ticket out of town.

You think he's sticking it to the man?

How much is he really hurting himself in this case.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I mean, if you were negotiating your salary at work, and at the end of your career you could earn 1 million or 1.1 million would you not be looking for that 1.1 million? If you have 30 years of work, that extra $100k would only work out to an extra $3,333 a year. Not a big deal...per year.

I don't think we can fault anyone for trying to get what they think they are worth. It's their decision to not make anything if the company decides not to pay them.

I definitely hear you, and in my own way I truly respect Nylander for trying to stick it to "the Man", but really this is a fruitless fight.  Nylander is only hurting himself and it's going to earn him a ticket out of town.

You think he's sticking it to the man?

How much is he really hurting himself in this case.

I'm going to guess that the only option for Nylander to earn over $5 million dollars a year is to play hockey, and he isn't doing that right now.

 

[sickbeast]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I mean, if you were negotiating your salary at work, and at the end of your career you could earn 1 million or 1.1 million would you not be looking for that 1.1 million? If you have 30 years of work, that extra $100k would only work out to an extra $3,333 a year. Not a big deal...per year.

I don't think we can fault anyone for trying to get what they think they are worth. It's their decision to not make anything if the company decides not to pay them.

I definitely hear you, and in my own way I truly respect Nylander for trying to stick it to "the Man", but really this is a fruitless fight.  Nylander is only hurting himself and it's going to earn him a ticket out of town.

You think he's sticking it to the man?

How much is he really hurting himself in this case.

I'm going to guess that the only option for Nylander to earn over $5 million dollars a year is to play hockey, and he isn't doing that right now.

Is he sticking it to the Man?  Maybe.  In terms of how much he is hurting himself, that depends on whether or not he sits out for the entire season, which is a very real possibility at this point.  I have a feeling that an 11th hour deal will be reached with Dubas offering Nylander a little bit more, and Nylander taking it.  But how much salary will Nylander have sacrificed at that point?  $1 million?  $2 million?  I'm going to split that down the middle and say it's $1.5 million.  I really don't think Dubas is going to give him more than say $400,000 extra per season in an 11th hour deal.  Over a 7 year deal that's $2.8 million.  So I guess that's what Nylander is banking on.  Even if he only gets $200,000 extra per season that will cover his costs for sitting out, and I'm pretty sure this will help the Leafs with the salary cap in future seasons also.  So we'll see.  I am hopeful that is how this will all turn out but there are no certainties in all of this.  And I really do believe that Nylander feels he would be in a better situation elsewhere.  I predict Dubas will shut that option down entirely unless this turns into a protracted dispute with Nylander sitting out for the season.

 

[Joe S.]

With Kapenen's season to date, I think this can be re-titled to "Contracts for the Big 4"

I?m enjoying kapanen?s success as any leafs fan would, but come on let?s slow our roll here.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I mean, if you were negotiating your salary at work, and at the end of your career you could earn 1 million or 1.1 million would you not be looking for that 1.1 million? If you have 30 years of work, that extra $100k would only work out to an extra $3,333 a year. Not a big deal...per year.

I don't think we can fault anyone for trying to get what they think they are worth. It's their decision to not make anything if the company decides not to pay them.

I definitely hear you, and in my own way I truly respect Nylander for trying to stick it to "the Man", but really this is a fruitless fight.  Nylander is only hurting himself and it's going to earn him a ticket out of town.

You think he's sticking it to the man?

How much is he really hurting himself in this case.

I'm going to guess that the only option for Nylander to earn over $5 million dollars a year is to play hockey, and he isn't doing that right now.

Sure. I meant more in the long run though. I don't know how much this really hurts him. I suppose it could go either way.

The only option for me to make what I make is to do what I do.....Doesn't mean I'm going to settle for less than what I'm worth.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Happened to TBay. At what point does more money matter? Like at the end of your career if you've made $50million does your life really materially change much if you make $60million or $70million? At what point do you go I'm ok with $50million if it means this staff keeps this core together long term and we make a run for it every year.

I mean, if you were negotiating your salary at work, and at the end of your career you could earn 1 million or 1.1 million would you not be looking for that 1.1 million? If you have 30 years of work, that extra $100k would only work out to an extra $3,333 a year. Not a big deal...per year.

I don't think we can fault anyone for trying to get what they think they are worth. It's their decision to not make anything if the company decides not to pay them.

I definitely hear you, and in my own way I truly respect Nylander for trying to stick it to "the Man", but really this is a fruitless fight.  Nylander is only hurting himself and it's going to earn him a ticket out of town.

You think he's sticking it to the man?

How much is he really hurting himself in this case.

I'm going to guess that the only option for Nylander to earn over $5 million dollars a year is to play hockey, and he isn't doing that right now.

Sure. I meant more in the long run though. I don't know how much this really hurts him. I suppose it could go either way.

The only option for me to make what I make is to do what I do.....Doesn't mean I'm going to settle for less than what I'm worth.

But what if your only option is to settle for less than what you think you're worth? What if there's no one willing to pay you more?