Coronavirus

[Bender]

Yes if only the popular vote actually determined that.

It's the same system that gave us 10yrs of Stephen Harper. I'm for electoral reform but not just when it's convenient for me.

 

[Bender]

Yes if only the popular vote actually determined that.

If we had PR then the NDP would hold the balance of power in nearly every election. Which, you know, is fine by me but it 100% is an argument for this country to be more left-wing than it is. There's a reason Conservatives didn't support electoral reform either.

A plurality of Canadians are either centre or left of centre. We've talked about this before and we've disagreed, but I do think the creep right by the conservatives panders to their base and not Canadians at large. There's a reason why Harper was so successful and I think it's partially because he wasn't an overt social conservative.

This could get into a very long discussion less about COVID and more about politics, though!

 

[Kin]

I don't particularly care for Trudeau, and never liked him after he made a promise to move to a proportional representation system, and then backed off after getting elected...

So, I think anyone who has been bored by my politics knows I'm not a big fan of a Neoliberal Centrist like Trudeau either but I think it's important to be clear that this never happened. Electoral reform was in the Liberals 2015 platform but they never promised PR or a variant of it. They said all manner of electoral reform would be discussed and examined.

I know proponents of PR took that to mean PR but realistically the Liberal party was never going to follow through on something that would mean saying goodbye to any real chance of forming majority government in the future. They wanted ranked choice balloting. The NDP wanted PR. The Conservatives didn't want a change.

Again, I'm not a fan of Trudeau but I actually think this "broken promise" is one of the more decent things he's done while in office. He 100% could have used his majority to bring in ranked-choice voting which would have probably been a huge electoral advantage going forward but because there really wasn't a lot of cross party support for any one change he didn't just go with what his party preferred. So a broken promise, sure, but we should be specific about it.

 

[berserker]

Yes you are right about that it just seems
this has always been more about politics
Used as a reason for the great reset.
I am done goodnight all...
Go Leafs Go

 

[Bender]

Time for it to end ....yes
And we as Canadians should be grateful it took
place , even if you do not agree with their methods.. Not all of us are happy with the direction our country is headed.  And more people should question our current government

I truly don't understand what you're trying to say here. We should be happy people protested and said their aim was to overthrow the democratically elected government? Happy that they want to overturn mandates that 65% of Canadians agree with? That the majority of people in Ottawa don't want the protest to cause the level of chaos it created?

And, as an aside, there are informed citizens who can agree with certain aspects of the elected government and disagree with others. The whole problem of political polarization stems from people thinking in absolute terms and politicians knowing how to exploit that.

 

[Kin]

https://twitter.com/ItsDeanBlundell/status/1494430259747434498?s=20&t=69qX_kuZ3UEBBzFcqlcUlg

So getting a little bit back to the protests I think this is a good example of why people have so much trouble taking this protest seriously. There is no leadership. There is no coherent list of "demands". Everything that has been put forth has either been wildly undemocratic(deposing the sitting government) or politically incoherent(Trudeau doesn't control provincial health mandates)

Whenever leaders are put forth to be scrutinized, and invariably found to be whackjobs with ties to white nationalism, then all of a sudden they're disavowed.

That's why nobody takes this protest seriously. Disagree with a group like BLM if you want but they have an official website with actual officers and specific calls for what they want. The money they take and its uses are scrutinized and, sometimes, used to discredit them.

This is a leader-less, manifesto less "movement" that seems to not be overtly about anything materially other than causing hassle for the citizens in Ottawa or Windsor or wherever just going about their business. It's not wonder the majority of Canadians have time for them.

 

[louisstamos]

I don't particularly care for Trudeau, and never liked him after he made a promise to move to a proportional representation system, and then backed off after getting elected...

So, I think anyone who has been bored by my politics knows I'm not a big fan of a Neoliberal Centrist like Trudeau either but I think it's important to be clear that this never happened. Electoral reform was in the Liberals 2015 platform but they never promised PR or a variant of it. They said all manner of electoral reform would be discussed and examined.

I know proponents of PR took that to mean PR but realistically the Liberal party was never going to follow through on something that would mean saying goodbye to any real chance of forming majority government in the future. They wanted ranked choice balloting. The NDP wanted PR. The Conservatives didn't want a change.

Again, I'm not a fan of Trudeau but I actually think this "broken promise" is one of the more decent things he's done while in office. He 100% could have used his majority to bring in ranked-choice voting which would have probably been a huge electoral advantage going forward but because there really wasn't a lot of cross party support for any one change he didn't just go with what his party preferred. So a broken promise, sure, but we should be specific about it.

You might be right that they didn't promise PR specifically, but unless I'm misremembering, I remember fairly distinctly that Trudeau said that "2015 would be the last election using First-Past-the-Post."  And yes, it could have been any of PR, MPP or ranked ballot, I would have preferred any of those to the antiquated system that we're still using now.  But you're right - because there wasn't cross-party support for any new system, that may likely be why he broke that promise.

(I wrote my 4th year thesis on the effects of voting systems on voting behaviour so I'm kind of passionate about this sort of thing. )

But yes - this is probably for another thread.  Back to Covid regulations! 

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/OttawaPolice/status/1494718932212662284
Just in case you weren't sure which side to stand on

 

[Kin]

It's still so comical to see police inching forward, being pushed back on with every step. Just trying to imagine any other group thinking they could do that without immediate police escalation.

 

[herman]

It's still so comical to see police inching forward, being pushed back on with every step. Just trying to imagine any other group thinking they could do that without immediate police escalation.

The police?s opening salvo was a strongly worded letter lmao

 

[Joe S.]

https://twitter.com/Justin_Ling/status/1494731242050310156?s=20&t=JfhjDDt4vMJ0fowS699-rQ

So the 3 alleged ring leaders have been arrested.

Also I?m seeing that protestors are barricading their cars and trucks in snow and creating snow ?barriers?.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/thomasdaigle/status/1494724702123737096
Canada is pretty funny

 

[Joe S.]

The amount of restraint the police are showing is remarkable. People and trucks are still being allowed to freely leave, which is good.

I think I heard about 20 rigs/cabs have left voluntarily.

 

[L K]

https://twitter.com/amaramarasingam/status/1493963316418519041

Excuse me?!

I can't even begin to comprehend.

I would rather my child die alone than get a vaccine. Holy shit.

I mean the really fun part about this victimhood nonsense is that they absolutely can visit their child.  They just have a separate area that they attend to keep them away from the other children. 

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/amaramarasingam/status/1493963316418519041

Excuse me?!

I can't even begin to comprehend.

I would rather my child die alone than get a vaccine. Holy shit.

I mean the really fun part about this victimhood nonsense is that they absolutely can visit their child.  They just have a separate area that they attend to keep them away from the other children.

Just like how most truckers who refused a vaccine who crossed borders were re-assigned to cross Canada routes.

 

[Joe S.]

So there?s a fake story going around that the cops trampled an elderly disabled woman with a horse and killed her. Gotta love the world of misinformation we live in. I want someone to interview the horse and get his side of the story.

https://twitter.com/OttawaPolice/status/1495026664845328388?s=20&t=emumKbiyifml1BdpyQeUow

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

https://twitter.com/RepHerrell/status/1495074820345712645

Please keep them.

 

[Bullfrog]

Since we're talking about convoy, conspiracies, etc......


Theo Fleury is nuts.

 

[Bender]

Since we're talking about convoy, conspiracies, etc......


Theo Fleury is nuts.

I already knew he was nuts but when he said millions of people were going to the convoy while on Fox News... Well he's way more nuts than I thought.

 

[Kin]

Man, I just really hope the Conservatives remember how they reacted to all this when the next election rolls around and they're asking why they can't win seats in cities.