Coronavirus

[bustaheims]

I want to make it crystal clear, I am not advocating anything to anyone, I mentioned that if I could get said chemical, which won't be named then "I" would get it. Nothing to do with anyone else.

And I am not propagating conspiracy theories which I personally think of as nonsense.

Nuff said.

So, here's the problems with that position:

a) Whether or not the drug in question is an effective treatment for COVID-19 is still up in the air. There's some anecdotal evidence, but no clinical trials. It also has some significant and potentially dangerous side effects. You could very well be doing more harm to yourself. It should never be taken without being prescribed by a licensed medical doctor.

b) The drug is question is being viewed as a potential treatment. There is zero evidence from anyone qualified to test for these things that it is at all effective in helping you to prevent getting infected. If you take it without being sick, you're not doing anything to actually protect yourself from the virus.

c) Getting your hands on said drug when you don't need it is selfish. There are a number of people who rely on it to help treat serious medical conditions, like lupus. Also, if it is proven to be an effective treatment for COVID-19, and you're holding on to it when you're not sick, you're preventing it from getting to someone who actually needs it. Getting the drug when you're not sick and don't need it could directly contribute to someone else's death.

DO NOT try to get your hands on medication you don't need. All it does it put yourself and others in danger.

 

[Highlander]

I want to make it crystal clear, I am not advocating anything to anyone, I mentioned that if I could get said chemical, which won't be named then "I" would get it. Nothing to do with anyone else.

And I am not propagating conspiracy theories which I personally think of as nonsense.

Nuff said.

So, here's the problems with that position:

a) Whether or not the drug in question is an effective treatment for COVID-19 is still up in the air. There's some anecdotal evidence, but no clinical trials. It also has some significant and potentially dangerous side effects. You could very well be doing more harm to yourself. It should never be taken without being prescribed by a licensed medical doctor.

b) The drug is question is being viewed as a potential treatment. There is zero evidence from anyone qualified to test for these things that it is at all effective in helping you to prevent getting infected. If you take it without being sick, you're not doing anything to actually protect yourself from the virus.

c) Getting your hands on said drug when you don't need it is selfish. There are a number of people who rely on it to help treat serious medical conditions, like lupus. Also, if it is proven to be an effective treatment for COVID-19, and you're holding on to it when you're not sick, you're preventing it from getting to someone who actually needs it. Getting the drug when you're not sick and don't need it could directly contribute to someone else's death.

DO NOT try to get your hands on medication you don't need. All it does it put yourself and others in danger.

Agreed, your right, I am not making any effort to obtain said chemical even though I do have underlying conditions. I am not commenting further on this, I am keeping it to hockey which I seem to remember is a  game played on ice.

 

[Bender]

That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."

"Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously, if you're not infected," Tam said Monday.

My rebuttal is to your part saying she is still spouting mask bs etc. and I think that tweet did it's job in refuting that argument. What was said a week ago is outdated.

So if the study Canada is currently part of for the not to mentioned treatment gets proven to work we can then mention it?? But not while they are testing it, just once the results are in?? Gotcha

I have no idea what you're trying to convey here. The previous parts of the thread talking about hydroxychloroquine isn't here so I don't really know what they said. Are you referring to a study on masks or something? I think debating whether a drug works or not is pretty ridiculous for this type of site and is something best left to scientists and health care professionals. Wearing a mask is a different debate because you aren't ingesting a chemical without any trials and has more nuance to it than you're leading on. I'm not going to get mad at people who wear masks but I am going to be annoyed at people who think a cotton mask is the same as a surgical mask/N95 or use it as a pretext to keep going out or that it's some kind of pancea that has 0 trade offs in terms of risk. But again, that's a much different discussion.

I think my position is pretty clear and I don't really have anymore time or energy dealing with disingenuous posts or baiting or whatever it is you're trying to do. If you want to get into more detail on a platform with basically no guidelines get on twitter or something.

Nothing disingenuous about it. I simply questioned why the need to censor posters just because you don't agree with their posts.  I was told the only acceptable posts are those approved by Health Canada or WHO or similar. I don't think they have been exactly factual on this crisis as the mask writings proved. And the treatment we could not discuss is now actual in study by Canada?? But the point of my post was to allow open discussion not echo chamber like this place has been shifting towards.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/malaria-drug-being-studied-on-the-list-of-possible-covid-19-treatments-tam-1.4883377

So this will likely be the last time I engage you in this.

1) Let me define echo chamber: an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

Everyone has a right to their own beliefs and opinions but not their own facts, especially not in the current situation. To provide an anecdote, in university I had to cite my sources when writing papers and if they weren't good/credible sources then I would be failed. At minimum, for something affecting our society in such a total level, this should be our minimum standard. Saying COVID19 is a biological weapon is baseless and not factual and serves no one and nothing except for, as Tom Cochrane once said, the lunatic fringe and at worst is actually dangerous. I think we ought to defer to science on this one and science has generally stated at this time that it has the markings of a zoonotic virus. If new info from credible sources scientists will adjust because, well, that's what scientists do. If someone wants to discuss that elsewhere, cool. But it doesn't have to be here and that doesn't make it an echo chamber - we've clearly been presenting articles by generally reputable sources and some of what's there ebbs and flows. Using hydroxychloroquine as an example - it might work as a treatment, it might not. We don't know, and most medical experts are on the same page there. To say anything otherwise is baseless and serves no purpose here. It's better to take the Socratic road here and say you don't know than otherwise until further studies and data are published, and anyone touting otherwise without evidence, especially those who haven't been involved in treating patients, doing studies and the like, is full of it and therefore it doesn't warrant discussion here. There's a huge difference between having guidelines and standards of discussion and being an echo chamber (the now borderline cliche term is being floated around so frequently lately it's starting to resemble an echo chamber. The irony!)

2)

I was told the only acceptable posts are those approved by Health Canada or WHO or similar.

If there is new information by credible epidemiologists who are critical of Health Canada/PHO/WHO response that's fine. I don't think the WHO has done a very good job at this, but that's a different story than "let's discuss the merits of hydroxychloroquine." The type of conversation is different and I'm sure you can understand that difference. You can be critical of Health Canada/Dr. Tam in terms of masks but, again, I literally just posted a nuanced twitter post by her regarding masks. We are allowed to discuss the merits of this, but you have to take in new information into account. You said she still is touting BS on masks and I think the twitter post rebutts that, so I don't understand why you aren't incorporating this new information and moving on. You didn't like her stance before, she clarified and provided a nuanced view on that stance and you're still acting like she didn't provide that. If you want to ignore that entirely then that's fine by me, but why would anyone discuss this any further if you're clinging to beliefs that don't change with new information? Doubling down on ignoring anything that refutes your opinion....hmm...that reminds me of a term we used earlier....

3) One of my favourite epidemiologists right now is Dr. David Fisman of the University of Toronto. He's been highly critical of Dr. Donnelly and PHO for the rollout of testing in Ontario. I like that there is someone out there trying to hold them accountable. I think there is room for criticism but there is a certain procedure and decorum in criticism and different viewpoints and the subject actually matters. Like I said, if I give advice in my field that I'm not qualified to give then I'm basically fired. If that's good enough to get me fired then I really don't think that advice should also be dispensed here. My rationale carries over to medical advice, especially when it's unsolicited, from someone who isn't a medical professional and in regards to something the world knows very little about.

 

[Bullfrog]

So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.

I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.

 

[bustaheims]

So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.

I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.

I'm doing alright, other than not sleeping super well - or, as I should probably say, even less well than my usual not sleeping well. My fiancee, on the other hand, is not doing well.

 

[WAYNEINIONA]

So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.

I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.

You have lots of company in the stir crazy department.

 

[louisstamos]

My sleep has not been great either, and the anxiety is doing some awful things to my stomach, but other than that, I'm hanging in there.  My partner doesn't live with me yet, and she's immunocompromised as well, so we're keeping physical distance from each other, but it's hard and is really starting to take a toll on our relationship.

On the plus side, I feel like I'm far more productive working from home than I was going to the office.  I guess my cat makes a good assistant?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

3) One of my favourite epidemiologists right now is Dr. David Fisman of the University of Toronto.

I've got his rookie card!

 

[Frank E]

Beer helps.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Beer helps.

I went about 4 days without beer last week because I ran out and didn't want to go out until my next grocery store trip. Those were rough days.

 

[louisstamos]

Beer helps.

I do feel like a beer would help take some stress off, but I'm recovering from a concussion (a headshot in a non-contact hockey league, go figure ???) and the doc has advised not to.

 

[bustaheims]

My sleep has not been great either, and the anxiety is doing some awful things to my stomach, but other than that, I'm hanging in there.  My partner doesn't live with me yet, and she's immunocompromised as well, so we're keeping physical distance from each other, but it's hard and is really starting to take a toll on our relationship.

On the plus side, I feel like I'm far more productive working from home than I was going to the office.  I guess my cat makes a good assistant?

Must be nice. Ours does not.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I was probably at my lowest point a couple of weeks ago, back when the upcoming Ontario "shutdown" was the big news and I thought I'd have to stop working for awhile. I wasn't necessarily worried about money at that very moment, just the idea of having my life completely transformed by not being able to go to work.

Thankfully my work has somehow been deemed "essential" through both rounds of the list and things have been somewhat normal (albeit quieter) here. And I'm able to have measures that keep me and the handful of people I might need to interact with safe while doing my job.

I still feel like things aren't really close to getting better, and that even once they do the repercussions of this will last a very long time and that stresses me out. And of course I miss hanging out with my friends in-person and playing sports and such. But it is what it is.

I also have two very young nephews from one sister, and my other sister literally just gave birth to her first child a couple days ago and I hate that I can't see them. That's actually probably been the worst part for me.

 

[Highlander]

Well, I lost my job as the travel industry is gone, luckily I have some money owed to me.  Was drinking too much so have cut that out completely, hoping for some sun, I live on a hill in BC and there are some hiking trails out back which I intend to use when it warms up a little. It's actually hitting me quite hard as not sure at all what the future holds. Trying to keep the faith.

 

[Highlander]

Looks like Boris Johnson UK premier is not at all well with the virus.  Hope he makes it.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Beer helps.

I went about 4 days without beer last week because I ran out and didn't want to go out until my next grocery store trip. Those were rough days.

Apparently, Amsterdam Brewery has free delivery available online.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

We're holding up okay here. Our work was also deemed "essential" but I convinced the boss that I can do just as much from home as I can from the office so I've been working from home for 2 weeks now.

It's been a little stressful as I just started this job in November and we are a start up business. Our parent company is keeping us a float right now and I'm hoping that lasts. Who knows though. Thankfully my wife is a principal of a local high school and is fairly secure in her job.

Other than that, I do my best to stay away from the negative news. I try to check in most mornings on the news and then again after dinner. Other than that, I do my best to stay away. It's the only way I can stay sane. That, and beer. But we all seem to have that same vice. Am I the only one that has found themselves considering one at 9am on a Monday?

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.

I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.

I work in a grocery store, so no holing up at home for me. Instead, I get to have people cough at me, stand way too close, question constantly about why they have to wait in (a long) line now for a cashier and cannot pay with their filthy cash, cannot buy lottery tickets that they have to choose with their filthy hands, cannot return their filthy empties like I'm the one who made the rules. If one more person whines at me about not being able to buy ten packages of toilet paper or six cases of bottled water, they might find themselves hanging from our flagpole. There's lines on the floor to help people follow the social distancing rules and still they don't. They ask if <whatever the shelf is empty of> is in the back room. No, it's not. If it's here, it's out here. Yes, we have our institutional hand sanitiser and paper towels for the cashiers (and other staff) to use to keep the place clean and themselves safe, and NO, it is not for sale. Even worse, people try to steal it. We have to keep it out of sight.

There's actually more than one pandemic happening right now. One is the corona virus. The other is the sheer stupidity that I see, not only at my place of employment but daily on the news, people are shown gathering when they're not supposed to; going to places like parks and rec centers that are closed.

I wish I could stay home!

 

[Frank E]

Beer helps.

I went about 4 days without beer last week because I ran out and didn't want to go out until my next grocery store trip. Those were rough days.

Apparently, Amsterdam Brewery has free delivery available online.

We are GHA. But, I will order immediately if they deliver. Carlton X 2.

 

[Highlander]

Beer helps.

I do feel like a beer would help take some stress off, but I'm recovering from a concussion (a headshot in a non-contact hockey league, go figure ???) and the doc has advised not to.

A friend of mine has been hit in the head twice at Leaf games and suffered damage both times. The last one was a Chara slapshot that damaged his right frontal lobe.