Dealing with Last Night's Loss

[bustaheims]

Morning chaps, pip pip.

Waited a few days before asking this...is Phaneuf a potential trade or buy-out candidate this summer given performance compared to salary along with now having a new GM who didn't trade for him?

Burke said when the Phaneuf deal when down that it was Nonis who did all the legwork on it, so, in a way, he did trade for him. He's absolutely not a buyout candidate, and I imagine the Leafs would have to be overwhelmed by an offer to consider trading him. His performance vs salary wasn't anywhere close to as bad as people make it out to be.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Show me the media quotes where anyone predicted a Leaf win?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=668499

There's three, including Kevin Weekes and EJ Hradek.

I know Jeff Blair called Leafs in 6.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

I deal with it by accepting it for what it is. An abysmal failure. With a 3 goal lead and 10 minutes to go, it was their series to lose. Everything that happened before that point doesn't matter.

On the upside, that time they won in Winnipeg is probably no longer the maddest you've ever been after a game.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I deal with the loss by doing my best to not read this thread. Is it healthy if my eyes and ears are bleeding?

 

[cw]

Morning chaps, pip pip.

Waited a few days before asking this...is Phaneuf a potential trade or buy-out candidate this summer given performance compared to salary along with now having a new GM who didn't trade for him?

Burke said when the Phaneuf deal when down that it was Nonis who did all the legwork on it, so, in a way, he did trade for him. He's absolutely not a buyout candidate, and I imagine the Leafs would have to be overwhelmed by an offer to consider trading him. His performance vs salary wasn't anywhere close to as bad as people make it out to be.

By a 10-15% margin, he received more time on ice per game than any other Leaf skater. Given the way Carlyle matches, that's a pretty severe vote of confidence by the coach.

Consideration of a compliance buyout of Phaneuf isn't anywhere on the radar and won't enter their minds for a second.

Komisarek has one of the two allowed compliance buyouts. Maybe they'll have a discussion about Liles. With the Bozak UFA issue and the shortage of top 6 NHL centers,  I doubt Grabovski will be seriously considered unless something chronic is going on with his health. But that's it.

 

[bustaheims]

Komisarek has one of the two allowed compliance buyouts. Maybe they'll have a discussion about Liles. With the Bozak UFA issue and the shortage of top 6 NHL centers,  I doubt Grabovski will be seriously considered unless something chronic is going on with his health. But that's it.

I don't think anyone other than Komisarek is really a consideration for a compliance buy out this summer. Liles might be considered for it next summer (depending on other moves and development of prospects), but, there aren't really any upgrades in the UFA market this summer and the Leafs aren't in dire need of the cap space. At less than $4M per, his cap hit is still very manageable. The only way Grabovski leaves the team this summer is by trade. He plays a premium position, and I can't see the team bailing on him after one poor season.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Morning chaps, pip pip.

Waited a few days before asking this...is Phaneuf a potential trade or buy-out candidate this summer given performance compared to salary along with now having a new GM who didn't trade for him?

Burke said when the Phaneuf deal when down that it was Nonis who did all the legwork on it, so, in a way, he did trade for him. He's absolutely not a buyout candidate, and I imagine the Leafs would have to be overwhelmed by an offer to consider trading him. His performance vs salary wasn't anywhere close to as bad as people make it out to be.

Whole lot of confirmation bias goes on with Phaneuf.

 

[Kin]

The only way Grabovski leaves the team this summer is by trade. He plays a premium position, and I can't see the team bailing on him after one poor season.

I agree. Even if you think that Grabo is a terrible player who doesn't deserve the contract you signed then at the very least the smart move is to give him another season to see if he can play himself into a tradeable asset.

 

[TML fan]

I deal with it by accepting it for what it is. An abysmal failure. With a 3 goal lead and 10 minutes to go, it was their series to lose. Everything that happened before that point doesn't matter.

On the upside, that time they won in Winnipeg is probably no longer the maddest you've ever been after a game.

Actually no, although what happened in that game is a good part of the reason the Leafs aren't playing in the 2nd round.

 

[cw]

Komisarek has one of the two allowed compliance buyouts. Maybe they'll have a discussion about Liles. With the Bozak UFA issue and the shortage of top 6 NHL centers,  I doubt Grabovski will be seriously considered unless something chronic is going on with his health. But that's it.

I don't think anyone other than Komisarek is really a consideration for a compliance buy out this summer. Liles might be considered for it next summer (depending on other moves and development of prospects), but, there aren't really any upgrades in the UFA market this summer and the Leafs aren't in dire need of the cap space. At less than $4M per, his cap hit is still very manageable. The only way Grabovski leaves the team this summer is by trade. He plays a premium position, and I can't see the team bailing on him after one poor season.

I think (not absolutely positive) the compliance buyout option is only available this summer. Next summer, if Liles is bought out then, unlike the compliance buyout, it could count against the cap. If they foresee him as a 5-6-7 dman (and he certainly has been that under Carlyle in these playoffs and this past season), they may well feel they can do better with the $3.875 mil they are contracted to pay him for the next 3 years after this season - for a 5-6-7 dmen.

The current top 4: Phaneuf, Gardiner, Gunnarsson & Franson are all significantly younger. And they have Blacker losing his exemption in a couple of years and guys like Rielly, Finn & Percy coming along. And maybe Paul Ranger wants to play in the NHL again.

Based on how they're using Liles, I'd try my luck elsewhere and use the compliance buyout while it's available to therm.

 

[Kin]

I think (not absolutely positive) the compliance buyout option is only available this summer. Next summer, if Liles is bought out then, unlike the compliance buyout, it could count against the cap.

Nah. They're good for 2013 and 2014:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=650548

 

[lamajama]

We have tons of Cap space after next year. I'm not sure I'd even buy out
Komi unless they needed the space for the upcoming season - unless the Leafs have a handshake agreement with Komi.

I'd like to see the Leafs use the financial power to trade for a bad contract that comes along with a real high pick or player and then buy out the problem.

 

[Kin]

We have tons of Cap space after next year. I'm not sure I'd even buy out
Komi unless they needed the space for the upcoming season - unless the Leafs have a handshake agreement with Komi.

Considering that it would save the Leafs something along the lines of 1.6 million in real money it's going to happen.

 

[bustaheims]

I think (not absolutely positive) the compliance buyout option is only available this summer.

Teams get 2 total compliance buyouts that can be used this summer or next summer. That's why I don't see Liles being a compliance buyout this summer. There's no rush for them to use it on him, and he's as good as or better than what's available on the UFA market - and they players of similar calibre aren't going to be any cheaper than he is.

 

[bustaheims]

We have tons of Cap space after next year. I'm not sure I'd even buy out
Komi unless they needed the space for the upcoming season - unless the Leafs have a handshake agreement with Komi.

Part of those cap space calculations are dependent on Komisarek being bought out and freeing up the full $4.5M in cap space that way, instead of only $900K to have him play for the Marlies. It's also a respect thing. He's a veteran guy who could very well find a spot on an NHL roster if his cap hit was more manageable. Buying him out gives him the opportunity to find the right situation for himself, while freeing up cap space and a spot on the reserve list for the Leafs.

 

[cw]

I think (not absolutely positive) the compliance buyout option is only available this summer.

Teams get 2 total compliance buyouts that can be used this summer or next summer. That's why I don't see Liles being a compliance buyout this summer. There's no rush for them to use it on him, and he's as good as or better than what's available on the UFA market - and they players of similar calibre aren't going to be any cheaper than he is.

http://www.capgeek.com/new-cba/
You're right. It is allowed in 2014.

So keeping him for next year isn't a big hassle.

Slightly off topic: again based on misinformation at the time, I didn't realize compliance buyouts would be 2/3rds (or 1/3 in the case of a few) of the contract amount. I had previously read they would get the full amount in a compliance buyout.

In Luongo's case, instead of $40 mil, it would be $27 mil (which is obviously still alot). And the payout would be over 18 years at $1.5 mil per year - not a killer on an annual basis for the Canucks.

 

[lamajama]

We have tons of Cap space after next year. I'm not sure I'd even buy out
Komi unless they needed the space for the upcoming season - unless the Leafs have a handshake agreement with Komi.

Considering that it would save the Leafs something along the lines of 1.6 million in real money it's going to happen.

Since I'm advocating spending some $10+ mil on some other teams mistake $1.6 m is not a lot. If the Leafs use this financial leverage and get past the first round even that $10 m is recouped quickly.

 

[Redleaf]

Show me the media quotes where anyone predicted a Leaf win?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=668499

There's three, including Kevin Weekes and EJ Hradek.

You can argue all you want, but the general consensus was the Bruins win this. I'm not sure why you feel you need to disprove this?

Well, I don't need to but it's real easy to because you are absolutely wrong in saying that among fans, as evidenced by us here, that there was a widespread consensus that the Leafs wouldn't make a series of it or even fail to win it outright. I mean, for pete's sake, YOU predicted the Leafs would win the series. You're whole point is about what fan's expectations were(because until I showed you the consensus here and you shifted the question to the media you asked repeatedly what "fans" would be happy with) vs. what happened and the fans expectations were not that the Leafs were no match for the Bruins.

Either way, once the Leafs won the second game, it became clear that the Leafs could compete, and once they came back and won game six I'm sure most people had changed their perceptions about the matchup, myself included.

So when they won game two it changed your perception from before the series when you predicted Leafs in 7? When the Leafs forced a game seven it changed your perception when you predicted Leafs in 7? I mean, before you argue with me you may want to settle the argument you seem to be having with yourself.

So, while it doesn't matter what people thought before the series got underway, I still believe most would have been happy to see them take it to seven, even with a loss. Do you agree with that?

So people's perceptions of the Leafs chances before the series doesn't matter but people would have been happy with a seven game series even if they lost based on...their perceptions of the Leafs chances before the series? What in the world would I be basing that happiness on if not what I thought the Leafs would do against the Bruins.

I mean, I can't agree with it if I don't even understand it. If you were someone who predicted the Leafs would win the series, and again you were, then no, I don't imagine you would be happy with a loss regardless of the circumstances.

Is your argument about that or the collapse? I'm sure you lost me on what you are arguing about now.

You said that you thought fans would be happy with the results because they were better than being blown out every game. I said that people didn't expect the Leafs to be blown out every game so they're not likely to look at it that way. You said that no, everyone thought the Leafs would get killed. I proved that wasn't the case. You said that what I needed to do was show where the Media said they wouldn't get killed. I did that. You said that the general consensus was that the Leafs would lose because, again, facts are not getting through to you.  Then you said that fans perceptions before the series don't matter but people should be happy regardless. I started wondering if this was all some sort of elaborate prank on your part.

That's where we are now.

It's funny how you pretend not to get it.

 

[dappleganger]

I'm not actively upset about the loss day to day but I haven't watched any hockey since Monday and I couldn't tell you where any of the 2nd round series stand.

I guess I'm still pretty happy with Kessel's play in the series shutting up his critics and Reimer proving he can be a true number one goalie.

I think the series against Boston answered more questions than it raised and that's a positive.

I thought the Leafs showed a lot of character and played with integrity unlike Boston who took a few cheap shots (the elbow on JVR) and showed poor sportsmanship. (like throwing the water bottle on the ice at the start of overtime)

I'm proud of this Leafs team. Most in the media were saying the Leafs were DOA in the series and after the first game they looked like they were right.

Good on the Leafs for proving people wrong and showing that there might be more to this Leaf team going forward.

 

[Kin]

It's funny how you pretend not to get it.

Well, no. I mean, I get it. You're like the people who believe Elvis is still alive. You want to believe it so bad that you're willing to ignore the giant corpse on the toilet.