Game 59 Sat Feb 18/2012 Leafs at Canucks 7 pm CBC, am640

[Coderaspberry]

Wow, Hughson and Healy are totally having a threesome with the Canucks.

 

[L K]

On the slight up-side, I think Schenn and Gardiner have been our two best defensemen tonight

 

[TML fan]

This team has a lot of problems and more passengers than a 747, but goaltending is the primary issue. It's terrible, and it causes the rest of the team to be terrible.

There aren't a whole lot of goalies that wouldn't be struggling behind this team and their complete inability to get the puck out of their own zone.

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

 

[TML fan]

I think it all pretty much stems from goaltending. The Leafs are at their best when they are on the attack, using their speed. Lack of confidence in their goaltending is going to cause them to play much more cautiously because they are afraid to give up goals.

This team has a lot of problems and more passengers than a 747, but goaltending is the primary issue. It's terrible, and it causes the rest of the team to be terrible.

I beg to differ.  We are playing run and gun hockey with a team who loves run and gun and has nine players on their top 3 lines that completely outmatch our top 3 lines skill wise. It really really is time for a coaching change.

I don't see a "run and gun" game going on. I see a "getting hemmed in your own end, dumping the puck in at the red line and getting off because nobody wants to play in a game where you know you're going to lose" type of game going on.

 

[LittleHockeyFan]

run and gun?

the Leafs look more like crawl and fall tonight  :-[

 

[bustaheims]

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

We've had this discussion before, and you've never provided anything to convince me. Even when this team is playing well, they struggle to get the puck out once it's in their end. Teams that forecheck well expose that, and, regardless of the confidence level of the team, create great scoring chances. You can only count on your goalie to win you so many games. This team has been unable to execute in their own zone since Pat Burns was let go.

 

[lc9]

This team has a lot of problems and more passengers than a 747, but goaltending is the primary issue. It's terrible, and it causes the rest of the team to be terrible.

There aren't a whole lot of goalies that wouldn't be struggling behind this team and their complete inability to get the puck out of their own zone.

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

I agree with this.

 

[azzurri63]

This team has a lot of problems and more passengers than a 747, but goaltending is the primary issue. It's terrible, and it causes the rest of the team to be terrible.

There aren't a whole lot of goalies that wouldn't be struggling behind this team and their complete inability to get the puck out of their own zone.

I agree. We are horrible without the puck. Poor man to man coverage and inept clearouts that give teams that extra oppurtunity. Eventually that catches up to you. Good teams don't give up too many chances every game. This team does and it boils down to poor execution or coaching. Been like that for a long time so figure it out.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

We've had this discussion before, and you've never provided anything to convince me. Even when this team is playing well, they struggle to get the puck out once it's in their end. Teams that forecheck well expose that, and, regardless of the confidence level of the team, create great scoring chances. You can only count on your goalie to win you so many games. This team has been unable to execute in their own zone since Pat Burns was let go.

The average SV% in the league is something like .914, so I don't see why we can't have a goalie like even a Craig Anderson who has a .910 SV% on a team that isn't exactly great defensively.

 

[azzurri63]

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

We've had this discussion before, and you've never provided anything to convince me. Even when this team is playing well, they struggle to get the puck out once it's in their end. Teams that forecheck well expose that, and, regardless of the confidence level of the team, create great scoring chances. You can only count on your goalie to win you so many games. This team has been unable to execute in their own zone since Pat Burns was let go.

Bang on.

 

[L K]

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

We've had this discussion before, and you've never provided anything to convince me. Even when this team is playing well, they struggle to get the puck out once it's in their end. Teams that forecheck well expose that, and, regardless of the confidence level of the team, create great scoring chances. You can only count on your goalie to win you so many games. This team has been unable to execute in their own zone since Pat Burns was let go.

The average SV% in the league is something like .914, so I don't see why we can't have a goalie like even a Craig Anderson who has a .910 SV% on a team that isn't exactly great defensively.

Not that it made the goaltending good but up until this past week both of our goaltenders were sitting on a .910 SV%

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

We've had this discussion before, and you've never provided anything to convince me. Even when this team is playing well, they struggle to get the puck out once it's in their end. Teams that forecheck well expose that, and, regardless of the confidence level of the team, create great scoring chances. You can only count on your goalie to win you so many games. This team has been unable to execute in their own zone since Pat Burns was let go.

The average SV% in the league is something like .914, so I don't see why we can't have a goalie like even a Craig Anderson who has a .910 SV% on a team that isn't exactly great defensively.

Not that it made the goaltending good but up until this past week both of our goaltenders were sitting on a .910 SV%

Oh really?  I guess I hadn't checked their stats in awhile - well there ya go.

 

[Coderaspberry]

I'm with Busta on this.  The troubles stem from defensive zone coverage, miscues, and lack of support.

Sure, we could use a few big saves, but how many should your goalie HAVE to make, on average?  I don't think there's an agreed upon metric for that.

 

[bustaheims]

The average SV% in the league is something like .914, so I don't see why we can't have a goalie like even a Craig Anderson who has a .910 SV% on a team that isn't exactly great defensively.

I'm not sure where you're getting the .914 from, because, when I checked a little while ago, it was much closer to .906, which is right where both Leafs goalies were going into tonight's game.

 

[TML fan]

I don't agree. I think when the Leafs are being aggressive and using their speed, they don't play too much of the game in their own end. I think the problem is that they are playing without any confidence because they feel any mistake is ending up in their net. Sure, they're still going to have shitty coverage and let in some goals, but not to this extent. Not to the extent where the best they can muster is a 30 foot wrister at the other end.

We've had this discussion before, and you've never provided anything to convince me. Even when this team is playing well, they struggle to get the puck out once it's in their end. Teams that forecheck well expose that, and, regardless of the confidence level of the team, create great scoring chances. You can only count on your goalie to win you so many games. This team has been unable to execute in their own zone since Pat Burns was let go.

I'm not saying they don't struggle to get the puck out of their end. I'm saying that trying to play defence with this team is a losing battle. They should be trying to win games 8-6 not 3-2. If the Leafs had the freedom to attack, they'd probably still lose a lot of games but at least they'd have a fighting chance to win. They are not free to attack because they are so worried about their goaltending, that if they're not in the right position of if they get caught being a little too aggressive, it's always going to end up in the net.

If you look at the end of last season, the Leafs didn't have this problem because they were getting great goaltending. They weren't really doing anything different, maybe executing defensively a little better, but I think that is also something that comes from confidence.

I'm also not suggesting that it's a good idea for any hockey team to try to win 8-6. I'm just saying that that's how the Leafs are built but they are playing with a siege mentality and that is ultimately self defeating in pretty much everything.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The average SV% in the league is something like .914, so I don't see why we can't have a goalie like even a Craig Anderson who has a .910 SV% on a team that isn't exactly great defensively.

I'm not sure where you're getting the .914 from, because, when I checked a little while ago, it was much closer to .906, which is right where both Leafs goalies were going into tonight's game.

From Mirtle's twitter on the 17th:

James Mirtle @mirtle

@SkinnyPPPhish Here's a stat for you: Average save percentage of goalies with 20+ starts: .914 this season. .914 is average!

 

[bustaheims]

From Mirtle's twitter on the 17th:

James Mirtle @mirtle

@SkinnyPPPhish Here's a stat for you: Average save percentage of goalies with 20+ starts: .914 this season. .914 is average!

Well, sure, if you want to completely eliminate backup goalies.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

From Mirtle's twitter on the 17th:

James Mirtle @mirtle

@SkinnyPPPhish Here's a stat for you: Average save percentage of goalies with 20+ starts: .914 this season. .914 is average!

Well, sure, if you want to completely eliminate backup goalies.

I wasn't actually looking at it when I originally posted, had to look it up again, or else I would have clarified by saying starting goalies originally.  8)

 

[bustaheims]

I wasn't actually looking at it when I originally posted, had to look it up again, or else I would have clarified by saying starting goalies originally.  8)

League-wide average is actually ~.910 coming into tonight's games, which, as L K pointed out, is right around where the Leafs goalies were not that long ago.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I wasn't actually looking at it when I originally posted, had to look it up again, or else I would have clarified by saying starting goalies originally.  8)

League-wide average is actually ~.910 coming into tonight's games, which, as L K pointed out, is right around where the Leafs goalies were not that long ago.

That is more comforting to read.