Game of Thrones (S6)
- Thread starter Joe S.
- Start date
Kin
New member
CarltonTheBear said:
That's my point. That's why the scene came off as so weird for someone like me who didn't read the books. It seems like this group of, like, 20 people flipped back and forth on what were stated to be these deeply ingrained societal conventions on a dime.
"We can't have a woman leader!"
"Or maybe we can!"
"Oh wait, a man wants to be King? Let's do that!"
Nik the Trik said:
Oh, agreed then for sure. Those guys wouldn't have considered a female leader for half a second, regardless of who she had in her corner (unless maybe if they were dragons).
herman
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
This was somewhat missed by the tv show.
Balon's family established the tradition of succession by lineage. The Ironborn tradition prior was always to hold kingsmoots to determine who would lead the people based on a) how much stuff they presented as gifts to everyone (i.e. stuff procured by paying the iron price -- pirated) b) the promise of even more through effective reaving.
The flip flop here had less to do with following a woman; as Theon noted, a lot of them followed her into reaving and battles on the regular as she captained her own ship and ship captains were kings of their ships. It was more like following the status quo (Greyjoy lineage), or returning to a tradition of greatness of yesteryears past (succession of the strongest).
Kin
New member
herman said:
I'm sure there's an internal logic but I think at this point(well, always really) criticism of the show is pretty valid as a self-contained thing. If, for a scene to make sense, the viewer needs to have done the required reading then it's failing on its merits as a TV show. The Marvel movies, for instance, didn't make having read enough issues of the comic book to be familiar with Batroc the Leaper's backstory central to understanding why he was trying to kick Captain America's face.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
It was basically one dude yelling that they've never had a Queen and that there was now a male heir of Balon who had returned so presumably he should be the King. IIRC it wasn't as if it was widespread against her.
herman
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
No disagreement there about GoT occasionally not signposting their logic well enough, likely because they no longer have GRRM's existing dialogue to work with, and trying to pack too much expository into one or two seemingly inconsequential lines (per Potvin's quote), rather than unfolding motivations and characterizations more carefully.
herman
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
The only thing this latest speech provided is the heads up that her other dragons will have riders, and that she alone is not sufficient to effectively rule. She's got the figurehead and speechifying and moral compass thing down, but the minutae of court and peace building/keeping are struggles still. There are characters with arcs on the rise to such leadership, assuming the end game is a Triumvirate that unites the kingdoms against the Others. Tyrion for sure is being groomed in that direction. Jon is another rather obvious candidate. Sansa?!.
herman
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
It's exactly like that in the books too. Dany's wheel spinning is so boring.
I picked it up from her reference to the Khal's bloodriders. It's rather oblique but that's what I insinuated from her making that entrance on Drogon, coupled with the past few seasons of Jon and Tyrion growing into leadership roles from their initial meeting as bastard/dwarf cast-asides.