Goaltending conundrum v3.0-Reimer or Bernier?

[Zee]

I am just trying to figure out what part of a 34yr old goaltender with a .904 save percentage and 10yrs remaining on a contract would be appealing.

I don't understand it either. I'm not convinced Luongo is enough of an upgrade, now and in the future, to justify taking on that contract. As for Kipper . . . well, he looks like he very well could be on the verge of being done - not to mention the fact he's made it clear he won't report to his new team if he's traded.

That's due to one game where he gave up 8 goals on 28 shots. Without that game he's .918 in the other 14 games. He's got a ton more experience than Reimer and Scrivens combined so that in of itself is an upgrade.  He's proven in the past he can play a ton of hockey (60+ starts a year) and put up solid numbers. He's an upgrade in every way in net except for age.

Experience isn't an upgrade in and of itself if the younger players are playing better.

I wouldn't say they're playing better though. Luongo is used to playing all the time and not sit on the bench for long stretches like he's doing now in Vancouver. They're not helping him get into a groove the way he's being handled. His experience of playing important games is an upgrade over either Reimer or Scrivens because he's faced the pressure of playing in huge games. His .919 career save % over 700+ games is a testament to how consistently solid he's been. Only thing bad about him is that contract. Without it I'd gladly choose him over either of our guys for the next 4-5 seasons.

 

[Kin]

I wouldn't say they're playing better though. Luongo is used to playing all the time and not sit on the bench for long stretches like he's doing now in Vancouver. They're not helping him get into a groove the way he's being handled.

That strikes me more as trying to explain why Reimer and Scrivens are playing better, not an argument that they're not. Saying that he would play better if he were used more may be true but the numbers still give the edge to the two Leafs goalies.

His experience of playing important games is an upgrade over either Reimer or Scrivens because he's faced the pressure of playing in huge games.

I think there are some people who might say, with justification, that Luongo's record of actually playing in those important games is somewhat on the spotty side, tending more towards the alright than the exceptional. Certainly not enough to, say, favour him over goalies who are, again, playing better.

 

[Zee]

I wouldn't say they're playing better though. Luongo is used to playing all the time and not sit on the bench for long stretches like he's doing now in Vancouver. They're not helping him get into a groove the way he's being handled.

That strikes me more as trying to explain why Reimer and Scrivens are playing better, not an argument that they're not. Saying that he would play better if he were used more may be true but the numbers still give the edge to the two Leafs goalies.

His experience of playing important games is an upgrade over either Reimer or Scrivens because he's faced the pressure of playing in huge games.

I think there are some people who might say, with justification, that Luongo's record of actually playing in those important games is somewhat on the spotty side, tending more towards the alright than the exceptional. Certainly not enough to, say, favour him over goalies who are, again, playing better.

OK but then the Leafs aren't even playing their best goalie this season who happens to be Jussi Rynnas with a 1.000 save %

 

[hap_leaf]

I am just trying to figure out what part of a 34yr old goaltender with a .904 save percentage and 10yrs remaining on a contract would be appealing.

I don't understand it either. I'm not convinced Luongo is enough of an upgrade, now and in the future, to justify taking on that contract. As for Kipper . . . well, he looks like he very well could be on the verge of being done - not to mention the fact he's made it clear he won't report to his new team if he's traded.

That's due to one game where he gave up 8 goals on 28 shots. Without that game he's .918 in the other 14 games. He's got a ton more experience than Reimer and Scrivens combined so that in of itself is an upgrade.  He's proven in the past he can play a ton of hockey (60+ starts a year) and put up solid numbers. He's an upgrade in every way in net except for age.

Experience isn't an upgrade in and of itself if the younger players are playing better.

I wouldn't say they're playing better though. Luongo is used to playing all the time and not sit on the bench for long stretches like he's doing now in Vancouver. They're not helping him get into a groove the way he's being handled. His experience of playing important games is an upgrade over either Reimer or Scrivens because he's faced the pressure of playing in huge games. His .919 career save % over 700+ games is a testament to how consistently solid he's been. Only thing bad about him is that contract. Without it I'd gladly choose him over either of our guys for the next 4-5 seasons.

Give our guys a chance and they might surprise you.  Weak goals are way down in my opinion.
And they could have easily buckled by now under the pressure of playing in Toronto.  I am impressed and would love to see how better they get after some playoff experience...this year.

 

[Kin]

OK but then the Leafs aren't even playing their best goalie this season who happens to be Jussi Rynnas with a 1.000 save %

While I'm sure you meant that as a devastating critique on using numbers to support my contention that the Leafs goalies are playing better than Luongo both Reimer and Scrivens have higher save percentages in the NHL than Rynnas has in the AHL so...0 for 2 there slugger.

 

[Zee]

I am just trying to figure out what part of a 34yr old goaltender with a .904 save percentage and 10yrs remaining on a contract would be appealing.

I don't understand it either. I'm not convinced Luongo is enough of an upgrade, now and in the future, to justify taking on that contract. As for Kipper . . . well, he looks like he very well could be on the verge of being done - not to mention the fact he's made it clear he won't report to his new team if he's traded.

That's due to one game where he gave up 8 goals on 28 shots. Without that game he's .918 in the other 14 games. He's got a ton more experience than Reimer and Scrivens combined so that in of itself is an upgrade.  He's proven in the past he can play a ton of hockey (60+ starts a year) and put up solid numbers. He's an upgrade in every way in net except for age.

Experience isn't an upgrade in and of itself if the younger players are playing better.

I wouldn't say they're playing better though. Luongo is used to playing all the time and not sit on the bench for long stretches like he's doing now in Vancouver. They're not helping him get into a groove the way he's being handled. His experience of playing important games is an upgrade over either Reimer or Scrivens because he's faced the pressure of playing in huge games. His .919 career save % over 700+ games is a testament to how consistently solid he's been. Only thing bad about him is that contract. Without it I'd gladly choose him over either of our guys for the next 4-5 seasons.

Give our guys a chance and they might surprise you.  Weak goals are way down in my opinion.
And they could have easily buckled by now under the pressure of playing in Toronto.  I am impressed and would love to see how better they get after some playoff experience...this year.

Sure they're playing well, but if people are just taking a small sample size and saying Luongo isn't an upgrade in net, I really don't know what to say.  He's proven to be a stud in net for over 700 NHL games, Reimer and Scrivens are platooning this year, when one falters the other guy goes in for a bit and they're supporting each other.  Can one of the two of them play a full NHL season of 60+ starts?  That remains to be seen.  If you want to knock Luongo for a .904 save % this year in a tiny sample of only 15 games, I point to the season before the Leafs got Belfour, he had a terrible year and had a save % of under .900 for 60 games.  We all saw how that worked out, Belfour was still a fantastic goalie.  The same thing for Luongo, I'd take him in a heartbeat if his contract was 5 years or less.

 

[Zee]

OK but then the Leafs aren't even playing their best goalie this season who happens to be Jussi Rynnas with a 1.000 save %

While I'm sure you meant that as a devastating critique on using numbers to support my contention that the Leafs goalies are playing better than Luongo both Reimer and Scrivens have higher save percentages in the NHL than Rynnas has in the AHL so...0 for 2 there slugger.

Do both Reimer and Scrivens have better career numbers in the NHL than Luongo slugger?  Luongo has more career shutouts than Reimer and Scrivens have combined wins.  Sure he's played a lot more, that's my point, he's proven to be a #1 goalie over the long haul, neither Reimer nor Scrivens have proven that yet.

 

[Kin]

Do both Reimer and Scrivens have better career numbers in the NHL than Luongo slugger?

No. Likewise, Jaromir Jagr has a higher career PPG than does Steven Stamkos. As former Leafs GM Edmund Burke said, you can never plan the future by the past.

 

[ensco]

Why this endless discussion of Luongo, and no real discussion of Khabibulin, Giguere, and the other two or three possible choices?

Damien Cox, Kypreos, et al keep being fed these Luongo stories, but that alone doesn't make that idea worth talking about.

 

[leafplasma]

I wouldn't say they're playing better though. Luongo is used to playing all the time and not sit on the bench for long stretches like he's doing now in Vancouver. They're not helping him get into a groove the way he's being handled.

That strikes me more as trying to explain why Reimer and Scrivens are playing better, not an argument that they're not. Saying that he would play better if he were used more may be true but the numbers still give the edge to the two Leafs goalies.

His experience of playing important games is an upgrade over either Reimer or Scrivens because he's faced the pressure of playing in huge games.

I think there are some people who might say, with justification, that Luongo's record of actually playing in those important games is somewhat on the spotty side, tending more towards the alright than the exceptional. Certainly not enough to, say, favour him over goalies who are, again, playing better.

OK but then the Leafs aren't even playing their best goalie this season who happens to be Jussi Rynnas with a 1.000 save %

I think they can parlay those solid numbers into a major haul for Rynnas at the trade deadline, sell high???

 

[Zee]

Do both Reimer and Scrivens have better career numbers in the NHL than Luongo slugger?

No. Likewise, Jaromir Jagr has a higher career PPG than does Steven Stamkos. As former Leafs GM Edmund Burke said, you can never plan the future by the past.

OK Nik, as usual your are 100% correct on any hockey topic.

 

[Kin]

Do both Reimer and Scrivens have better career numbers in the NHL than Luongo slugger?

No. Likewise, Jaromir Jagr has a higher career PPG than does Steven Stamkos. As former Leafs GM Edmund Burke said, you can never plan the future by the past.

OK Nik, as usual your are 100% correct on any hockey topic.

Just hockey?

 

[Zee]

Do both Reimer and Scrivens have better career numbers in the NHL than Luongo slugger?

No. Likewise, Jaromir Jagr has a higher career PPG than does Steven Stamkos. As former Leafs GM Edmund Burke said, you can never plan the future by the past.

OK Nik, as usual your are 100% correct on any hockey topic.

Just hockey?

I don't read any of your other posts but I'll concede your superior intellect and debating skills probably extend to all topics.  You know everything about everything. New tag line.

 

[Kin]

I don't read any of your other posts but I'll concede your superior intellect and debating skills probably extend to all topics.  You know everything about everything. New tag line.

No reason to get all snippy just because I don't think Luongo would upgrade two goalies who are outplaying him.

 

[Zee]

I don't read any of your other posts but I'll concede your superior intellect and debating skills probably extend to all topics.  You know everything about everything. New tag line.

No reason to get all snippy because I don't think Luongo would upgrade two goalies who are outplaying him.

Snippy?  As bad as condescending with your "0 for 2 slugger"?

 

[Kin]

Snippy?  As bad as condescending with your "0 for 2 slugger"?

I thought that was a fair response to your equally condescending "Jussi Rynnas is the Leafs best goalie". What's good for the goose, et cetera.

 

[caver]

Nobody move or I'm calling in the Nutman !!  ;D ;D

 

[Redleaf]

I am just trying to figure out what part of a 34yr old goaltender with a .904 save percentage and 10yrs remaining on a contract would be appealing.

I don't understand it either. I'm not convinced Luongo is enough of an upgrade, now and in the future, to justify taking on that contract. As for Kipper . . . well, he looks like he very well could be on the verge of being done - not to mention the fact he's made it clear he won't report to his new team if he's traded.

That's due to one game where he gave up 8 goals on 28 shots. Without that game he's .918 in the other 14 games. He's got a ton more experience than Reimer and Scrivens combined so that in of itself is an upgrade.  He's proven in the past he can play a ton of hockey (60+ starts a year) and put up solid numbers. He's an upgrade in every way in net except for age.

Experience isn't an upgrade in and of itself if the younger players are playing better.

I wouldn't say they're playing better though. Luongo is used to playing all the time and not sit on the bench for long stretches like he's doing now in Vancouver. They're not helping him get into a groove the way he's being handled. His experience of playing important games is an upgrade over either Reimer or Scrivens because he's faced the pressure of playing in huge games. His .919 career save % over 700+ games is a testament to how consistently solid he's been. Only thing bad about him is that contract. Without it I'd gladly choose him over either of our guys for the next 4-5 seasons.

Give our guys a chance and they might surprise you.  Weak goals are way down in my opinion.
And they could have easily buckled by now under the pressure of playing in Toronto.  I am impressed and would love to see how better they get after some playoff experience...this year.

Sure they're playing well, but if people are just taking a small sample size and saying Luongo isn't an upgrade in net, I really don't know what to say.  He's proven to be a stud in net for over 700 NHL games, Reimer and Scrivens are platooning this year, when one falters the other guy goes in for a bit and they're supporting each other.  Can one of the two of them play a full NHL season of 60+ starts?  That remains to be seen.  If you want to knock Luongo for a .904 save % this year in a tiny sample of only 15 games, I point to the season before the Leafs got Belfour, he had a terrible year and had a save % of under .900 for 60 games.  We all saw how that worked out, Belfour was still a fantastic goalie.  The same thing for Luongo, I'd take him in a heartbeat if his contract was 5 years or less.

Agreed. It just the contract really.

 

[leafplasma]

Snippy?  As bad as condescending with your "0 for 2 slugger"?

I thought that was a fair response to your equally condescending "Jussi Rynnas is the Leafs best goalie". What's good for the goose, et cetera.

Never mind with this futile diatribe, lets get this thread back on topic, Scrivens for Mayor!!!

 

[leafplasma]

Lets not get to up in arms though.  In his previous two starts to this one he did steal 3 of 4 points from the Bruins and he was the winner last night.  He seems to get the wins despite less than stellar play at times as the team seems to  rally around him.  Having said that I would like to see Scrivens  Sat night after a great game against the Panthers.  With two fairly unproven goalies heading into the playoffs I think it is important to keep both sharp, plus it is no secret, I am Ben Scrivens  8).

Fixed that one for ya 

Why because I look like this after practice???