Goaltending conundrum
- Thread starter Redleaf
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bustaheims
Active member
Just another thing with Harding - his injury history is really not appealing. He missed all of last season with a knee problem, and has had a number of other lower body issues to go with a couple head injuries/concussions. While he may have the skill to be a #1 goalie, I'm certainly not convinced he has the durability.
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Sorry man, I thought people just moved on from prosaic arguments that mean little to the end argument.
But, if you're going to hold my feet to the fire, then OK. Yes, I think last game, all 62 minutes of it, Jonas Gustavson undid what his recent streak was trying to prove...that he is a reliable goaltender. The leafs are battling hard for points and to make the playoffs, and Gus set the team back, not only on the scoreboard but in demeanor. There is no inherent trust from the players to the goalie, and Gus proved that on Tuesday, as he has done his entire career with the Leafs.
Now does this standard apply universally? Not at all, and I never implied that it did. This is specific to Jonas Gustavson, who I think cemented his tenure with the Leafs on Tuesday. He is a goalie who gives up weak goals and can't be relied upon in crucial situations.
Unfortunately, Reimier hasn't proven anything either. So the musical chairs of ineptitude continue.
Redleaf
Active member
lc9 said:
While I don't agree or disagree with your assessment of Gus, I tend to give more slack to Reimer because of his age. Most goalies don't come to fruition until they reach their late 20s or early 30s. I suppose one could argue Gus hasn't reached his full potential, but between the two, I have more time for Reimer. For all intents and purposes I believe Gus is at the end of his stay in TO anyways.
I'll ask what I asked before....is the Leaf's "style" conducive to
a new or developing goaltender - by which I mean they get hung out to dry
continually each game. Can a newbie handle that pressure while trying
to figure out how to play in the NHL?
If not then the answer is only in a veteran goalie.
My 2 cents - a newbie can't handle this style and the resulting pressure. A vet can shrug it off and ignore the sloppy D in front of him.
a new or developing goaltender - by which I mean they get hung out to dry
continually each game. Can a newbie handle that pressure while trying
to figure out how to play in the NHL?
If not then the answer is only in a veteran goalie.
My 2 cents - a newbie can't handle this style and the resulting pressure. A vet can shrug it off and ignore the sloppy D in front of him.
If you watch Carey Price, he stands almost vertical in the net. He looks like he doesn't even care.
It's hard for me to comment on this because I don't know that much about goaltending, but perhaps Reimer (and Gustavsson) should just play the way they feel most comfortable playing. From what I can tell, Allaire isn't doing much to help.
It's hard for me to comment on this because I don't know that much about goaltending, but perhaps Reimer (and Gustavsson) should just play the way they feel most comfortable playing. From what I can tell, Allaire isn't doing much to help.
I think it has to do with a lack of confidence than the Leafs screwing up his style of play. Its almost comical that when things aren't at their best our criticism is that MLSE is incompetent in everything they do from top to bottom except for selling the brand.
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That flies in the face of the exponential growth of revenue since Peddie took over but that's neither here nor there.
Were not where we want to be and the answer is slash and burn everything so we can become the Columbus Blue Jackets. Oh goodie.
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Were not where we want to be and the answer is slash and burn everything so we can become the Columbus Blue Jackets. Oh goodie.
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hockeyfan1
New member
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/02/22/brophy_leafs_goalies_francois_allaire/
...Toronto's goaltenders struggling and the team ranking 28th in goals-against..
They've had times when they have played outstanding this year so it's a matter of these guys being consistent and getting the job done," Wilson said.
Wilson has no beef with Allaire and believes it is up to his young -- and relatively inexperienced -- goaltenders to find their game.
Together, they have played a grand total of 160 NHL games..
far as Reimer and Gustavsson are concerned, Allaire -- Frankie -- is the goalie coach for them.
"I have the best goalie coach in the world and we work hard every day," Reimer said.
Asked how his style, under the tutelage of Allaire differs from the style he played previously, Reimer said: "It's smarter, really. Frankie breaks down the game in a way that makes it simpler and easier for the goalie. If the puck is in certain areas of the ice you know what you are supposed to be doing. He makes things black and white; there's not a whole lot of grey and as a goalie, that's what you need. When the puck is in this area then you know you have to make this move. That gives you confidence. You're not thinking, 'Do I have to do this? Do I have to do that?' We practice the same way every day with repetition and doing things properly."
In a nutshell, Allaire teaches his goalies to drop their knees and then make themselves as big as possible sliding from side to side of the net. He wants the puck to hit his goalies...and the style reduces the need for athleticism...
"I don't know if it is anything to do with Frankie," Gustavsson said. "It's more about how the game is played over here. It's much different than back home. Back home it's much bigger ice and they take shots from different angles and they don't like to shoot the puck as much. Here they throw the puck at the net from everywhere so you have to be ready all the time.
"I had been working with Francois before I came over here and I tried to play that kind of game back home. I was a butterfly goalie who tried to play shots percentage-wise back home, too. That's what we try to do here. We try to keep things simple, but it's not always as easy as it sounds. Keeping it simple means reading the play and trying always to be in position all the time. With more games and more practices that is something that will be better with time."
"We have two young kids in the net that don't have a lot of experience," Allaire said. "So sometimes you are going to hit bumps in the road. The guys are working extremely hard.
"We have the youngest goaltending tandem in the league. We don't have more than 150 games played experience (actually 160).
...Toronto's goaltenders struggling and the team ranking 28th in goals-against..
They've had times when they have played outstanding this year so it's a matter of these guys being consistent and getting the job done," Wilson said.
Wilson has no beef with Allaire and believes it is up to his young -- and relatively inexperienced -- goaltenders to find their game.
Together, they have played a grand total of 160 NHL games..
far as Reimer and Gustavsson are concerned, Allaire -- Frankie -- is the goalie coach for them.
"I have the best goalie coach in the world and we work hard every day," Reimer said.
Asked how his style, under the tutelage of Allaire differs from the style he played previously, Reimer said: "It's smarter, really. Frankie breaks down the game in a way that makes it simpler and easier for the goalie. If the puck is in certain areas of the ice you know what you are supposed to be doing. He makes things black and white; there's not a whole lot of grey and as a goalie, that's what you need. When the puck is in this area then you know you have to make this move. That gives you confidence. You're not thinking, 'Do I have to do this? Do I have to do that?' We practice the same way every day with repetition and doing things properly."
In a nutshell, Allaire teaches his goalies to drop their knees and then make themselves as big as possible sliding from side to side of the net. He wants the puck to hit his goalies...and the style reduces the need for athleticism...
"I don't know if it is anything to do with Frankie," Gustavsson said. "It's more about how the game is played over here. It's much different than back home. Back home it's much bigger ice and they take shots from different angles and they don't like to shoot the puck as much. Here they throw the puck at the net from everywhere so you have to be ready all the time.
"I had been working with Francois before I came over here and I tried to play that kind of game back home. I was a butterfly goalie who tried to play shots percentage-wise back home, too. That's what we try to do here. We try to keep things simple, but it's not always as easy as it sounds. Keeping it simple means reading the play and trying always to be in position all the time. With more games and more practices that is something that will be better with time."
"We have two young kids in the net that don't have a lot of experience," Allaire said. "So sometimes you are going to hit bumps in the road. The guys are working extremely hard.
"We have the youngest goaltending tandem in the league. We don't have more than 150 games played experience (actually 160).
hockeyfan1
New member
This thing that Allaire is attempting to do with both Reimer and Gustavvson reminds me of another era in Leafs history, when they had a promising young netminder from the then Czechoslovakia, named Jiri Crha, who displayed a butterfly & flopping style, an exciting acrobatics style that suited the Leafs squad well.
Critics claimed that Crha's 'unorthodox' style was flawed and that he flopped too much, so, the Leafs brass set about changing his goaltending style. Instead of improvement, Crha was never quite the same. He was 'ruined'.
I don't like Reimer's too low crouching style. It doesn't appear to suit him properly. It seems that many of the shots go over his head or shoulder side. Also, why does he seem to emit a 'surprised' reaction each time he is scored upon in his crouching position?
Gustavvson perhaps may be a better student of the side-to-side method, since he has a longer reach pad-wise and arm-wise. Still, he too would be better off if he is just himself.
The fact that the Leafs goaltending duo of Reimer and Gus is largely an inexperienced group suggests that it will take time and plenty of patience if we are to see both of them succeed more aptly at the NHL level.
The question now is..can the Leafs afford to wait?
Critics claimed that Crha's 'unorthodox' style was flawed and that he flopped too much, so, the Leafs brass set about changing his goaltending style. Instead of improvement, Crha was never quite the same. He was 'ruined'.
I don't like Reimer's too low crouching style. It doesn't appear to suit him properly. It seems that many of the shots go over his head or shoulder side. Also, why does he seem to emit a 'surprised' reaction each time he is scored upon in his crouching position?
Gustavvson perhaps may be a better student of the side-to-side method, since he has a longer reach pad-wise and arm-wise. Still, he too would be better off if he is just himself.
The fact that the Leafs goaltending duo of Reimer and Gus is largely an inexperienced group suggests that it will take time and plenty of patience if we are to see both of them succeed more aptly at the NHL level.
The question now is..can the Leafs afford to wait?