Grabovski - Under the Watchful Eye Of An Angel
- Thread starter WhatIfGodWasALeaf
- Start date
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
cw said:
Either way, I'd gladly give Grabbo Connolly's money and say thanks for trying. I didn't like the two year deal to him (Connolly) anyway. I'm sure we had to give it to him to get the deal done, but I wish it would have been one year.
James Mirtle is saying that the two sides are having difficulties agreeing on term. Burke wants 4 or 5 years while Grabs wants more. We've been speculating on the money side of the contract quite a bit here without much mention of length. I'd do a $5mil deal for 4 years no problem like cw suggested above, but if Grabs wants a longer deal he's going to have to cut back on some salary.
ontariojames
New member
For the second year in a row Grabs is leading the entire team in +- and for the third year in a row leading the forwards in +- despite his line being used the most against the other teams top lines.
Had he not missed any games he would be on pace for 27 goals and 62 points. As it stands he is on pace for 25 goals and 57 points in 75 games.
In my opinion, he is one of the most underrated players in the league and is without a doubt worth 5 mil a year.
Had he not missed any games he would be on pace for 27 goals and 62 points. As it stands he is on pace for 25 goals and 57 points in 75 games.
In my opinion, he is one of the most underrated players in the league and is without a doubt worth 5 mil a year.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
His contract is starting to look like a little bit of an albatross.
Britishbulldog
Active member
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
After following crazyperfectdevil's link in the Kadri thread:
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2013/03/01/mikhail-grabovski-defensive-stalwart/ which starts with the comment:
"After 22 games, the one thing Leafs fans can agree on is that Randy Carlyle?s coaching methodology can be frustrating as hell. Nowhere is this more apparent than the deployment of Mikhail Grabovski.
After signing a five-year, 27.5-million dollar contract extension with the Toronto Maple Leafs last March, it seemed as though the Leafs had shored up a terrific top-six centreman who could be counted on for 50 points a season. But after 22 games Grabo sits with a modest 10 points (six goals, four assists); good for about 37 points in an 82-game schedule. Yet under Carlyle he?s developed into the team?s top shutdown pivot. So what?s to make of it?
When detailing the Mikhail Grabovski?s curtailed offensive performance for the season, we should start at his zone starts. He compiled 51 points in 74 games last season getting 53% Offensive Zone starts. This season, he?s only getting 33% Offensive Zone starts. As Cam Charron pointed out in May of 2012, zone starts matter when it comes to producing offense. This would explain some of his reduced point totals, as would his reduced role on the power play."
I have read a more opinions of hockey analysts like Cam Charron who writes:
Something's not right here.
How come Mikhail Grabovski, who has led Leafs centremen in even-strength scoring for the last two seasons the primary defensive option?
I've talked about the defensive unit of Grabovski with Nik Kulemin and Jay McClement on his wings soaking up tough competition. Obviously, it has restricted the offensive output of that line, Grabovski's current hot-streak aside. Bozak plays 20:43 a night and has a 56.4% face-off rate. Grabovski plays 16:51 a night and has a 51.0% face-off rate.
Would it not make more sense to simply flip the roles of those players, play Bozak on the line with McClement and Kulemin as a tight checking line that plays lighter shifts? I think Grabovski, who is a better shooter, skater and passer than Bozak, would be much better off playing alongside Phil Kessel and James van Riemsdyk, or you could move Nazem Kadri up to the that line and give Grabovski second-line minutes with Clarke MacArthur.
I have been absolutely frustrated with Grabovski play as a defensive $5.5 MIL player never thinking of blaming the coach. If Grabovski's role is changed with Bozak then Grabovski might actually have a chance to be a complete player again.
If Carlyle continues to use Grabovski as only a defensive center.......
Corn Flake
New member
Britishbulldog said:
Because I doubt Bozak can handle the role the way Grabbo does. Grabbo is the best option at centre to go up against the other team's top lines... why would Carlyle not use him that way?
Also, it's important to remember that Grabbo's wingers have been Kulemin and McClement - two guys who have had little offensive output - so Grabbo's numbers will suffer as a result there too.
I honestly don't see why people are getting frustrated by it, using his salary as the reason for it. He was paid to do one role and that role has changed a bit. So what? He's getting the job done for the most part in a very critical role now. In time maybe he moves back to a more offensive one if the Leafs add another centre who can handle part or all of the job.
J
Jalili
Guest
Is Grabovski actually a better passer than Bozak?
For all he does well as a top 6 center I didn't think anyone considered him a particularly good passer or playmaker.
For all he does well as a top 6 center I didn't think anyone considered him a particularly good passer or playmaker.
L K
Active member
I foresee Grabovski quickly falling into the Robert Reichel roster spot. A guy who is invaluable to the team. A guy who produces adequately for the offensive role that he is offered but is key to the defensive success of the team. And the casual fan will eat him alive and try and push him out of town because they only see the cap hit and the lack of 30 goal/60 point scoring.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
He was not signed to that contract to be what Carlyle wants him to be - shutdown centre. He was signed to provide secondary scoring. Carlyle pencilled Kadri and Frattin into that role and changed things quite a bit for Grabbo and wants him to be that shutdown type. Actually as such to score 6 goals is not bad at all (Hello Phil Kessel). Grabbo can not control the role Carlyle assigned to him.
Frank E
Active member
drummond said:
Thing is too is that Grabbo is pretty good at it.
Bozak would likely be quite unhappy in that role, given his contract is coming up.
Grabbo on the other hand just signed a nice big deal, and I imagine isn't as unhappy playing the role as Bozak may be.
He'll still be a 40+ point guy, and can fill in in the top 6 when required. A guy like him is still worth $4+mil...maybe not $5.5, but still not a massive overpayment given that he can certainly turn in up if they need him to play a more offensive role.
Britishbulldog said:
I read the Cam Charron and I found his argument incomplete. As I recall the argument was: "Grabbo is better offensively than Bozak so Grabbo should start more in the offensive zone." However, it may also be the case that Grabbo is better defensively than Bozak so by an identical argument, Grabbo should start in the defensive zone.
To come to a conclusion, one must analyze both the relative offensive and defensive skills. Unfortunately, this article ignores defensive skill so it fails to be helpful. (Presumably it ignores defensive skill because it is a lot harder to measure defensive skill than offensive skill....)
hockeyfan1
New member
Agree or disagree?
Slumping Toronto Maple Leafs forward Mikhail Grabovski is still firmly in coach Randy Carlyle's doghouse, and the problem could go beyond the Belarusian's recent lack of production.
The big issue could be that Grabovski, who has 11 points in 29 games this season, doesn't seem to know or care that there is one, according to Dave Feschuk of the Toronto Star, who calls the 29-year-old " the cheeriest of underachievers."
Grabovski has been relegated to third-line duty in recent games, and some are beginning to question if he fits into Carlyle's system or his long-term plans. With four years remaining on a contact that plays him an average of $5.5 million per season, it will be an issue if the enigmatic Grabovski, who insists he's perfectly happy with the current state of affairs, can't adapt to the coach's demands.
"Toronto?s worst fear is that they?ve got a rough copy of a young Alex Kovalev on their hands," Feschuk writes. "Far more skilled than he mostly chooses to show, far less concerned with maximizing his potential than his employer would like.
Source: ESPN
Slumping Toronto Maple Leafs forward Mikhail Grabovski is still firmly in coach Randy Carlyle's doghouse, and the problem could go beyond the Belarusian's recent lack of production.
The big issue could be that Grabovski, who has 11 points in 29 games this season, doesn't seem to know or care that there is one, according to Dave Feschuk of the Toronto Star, who calls the 29-year-old " the cheeriest of underachievers."
Grabovski has been relegated to third-line duty in recent games, and some are beginning to question if he fits into Carlyle's system or his long-term plans. With four years remaining on a contact that plays him an average of $5.5 million per season, it will be an issue if the enigmatic Grabovski, who insists he's perfectly happy with the current state of affairs, can't adapt to the coach's demands.
"Toronto?s worst fear is that they?ve got a rough copy of a young Alex Kovalev on their hands," Feschuk writes. "Far more skilled than he mostly chooses to show, far less concerned with maximizing his potential than his employer would like.
Source: ESPN
I think Grabovski is doing everything he can to accomplish what's being asked of him. He's simply not good enough to be a top producer and a top checker at the same time. Carlyle needs to decide what he wants Grabovski to do, and then give him the opportunity to do it.
Play Grabovski between Kessel and van Riemsdyk.
Play Grabovski between Kessel and van Riemsdyk.
Strangelove
New member
When can we put to rest the idea that he's a "top checker"? I vote now. He's been tried in a number of situations this year, but really, given his size and strength, he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table beyond offensive punch. If he can't produce at a significantly better clip than he is, hiscontract will become an albatross.