Hurricanes @ Leafs - Feb. 22nd, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590

[Kin]

I wouldn't even think of him as a living reminder though. Or try not to anyway.

That's admirable but if you don't think he's going to be used as shorthand for "Haha, aren't the Leafs a piece of crap" for a very long time...well, we disagree about that.

 

[Bill_Berg]

They know Ayres didn't beat them

Except he literally did. By the way statistics are figured in the NHL, Ayres won that game. In the Record books and everything. 

Take a step back and think about how unpreceden Rdted that is not just for the Leafs or Hockey, but in the history of professional sports.

I'm way more concerned about the team's mass losing than who got the win in one of those loses.  Goalies get wins and losses sure, but it wasn't Ayers' exceptional play that did the Leafs in.

They have bigger issues than having to see Ayers at practice.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I wouldn't even think of him as a living reminder though. Or try not to anyway.

That's admirable but if you don't think he's going to be used as shorthand for "Haha, aren't the Leafs a piece of crap" for a very long time...well, we disagree about that.

Oh I agree. And it's going to suck, but I don't know.  Maybe I'm getting numb to it now.  I really don't want to get angry about sports anymore.

 

[Kin]

I'm way more concerned about the team's mass losing than who got the win in one of those loses.  Goalies get wins and losses sure, but it wasn't Ayers' exceptional play that did the Leafs in.

They have bigger issues than having to see Ayers at practice.

It feels a little like we're talking about two different things here. I agreed in my response to HS that there were bigger things going on last night than Ayres and that a lot of it wasn't particularly relevant to the larger issues surrounding the team.

I can think that though while at the same time thinking that, typically, private organizations don't like being made into a laughingstock of historically embarrassing proportions.

 

[Kin]

Oh I agree. And it's going to suck, but I don't know.  Maybe I'm getting numb to it now.  I really don't want to get angry about sports anymore.

I'm not angry about it. Honestly, my suggestions here really are more of a "This is just how I think organizations work" thing.

Like, take the biggest embarrassment of your life. Maybe you did something dumb to impress a girl who then cruelly laughed at you for being dumb or something. There's a big difference between holding onto the memory of it so that you learn your lesson from it(don't do dumb things) which is probably good and healthy and, say, having to talk to that girl every day.

 

[Guilt Trip]

They know Ayres didn't beat them

Except he literally did. By the way statistics are figured in the NHL, Ayres won that game. In the Record books and everything. 

Take a step back and think about how unprecedented that is not just for the Leafs or Hockey, but in the history of professional sports.

You can spin it anyway you want but the players know Ayres didn't stone them. He had 3 shots, 2 goals against in the second period and all of 7 shots in the third and not a tough one. They'll be goofing with him today if they see him. These guys don't dwell on things, they can't. Learn, work on stuff in practice and move on.

 

[rdowdall]

Somebody said earlier that it makes you wonder whether Dubas's big plans are going to work at this level.  Yes, Carolina is a better than average defensive team but lesser teams have defeated the possession game if they play tenaciously enough. 

Somewhere Mike Babcock is having a real nice schadenfreude.

Really? If we have the same pts % for the full season instead of what we for under Babcock we aren't having this conversation.

I think the conversation still happens, it's just not as emotional.  If you read the posts the main theme is "Are the Leafs good?'. And people are divided on what the answer is.  Their divided because there are arguments that can be made on both sides.  I think that's why the conversations in these gameday threads take these swings game to game because after each group can point a finger and say "Look see I told you"

If the Leafs were in first place In the league and last night's game happened, in a way it may have been more embarrassing.

Tampa and Boston got smoked last night. The question is viable, don't get me wrong, but it's immensely coloured by sinking into a massive hole in the beginning of the season. Nobody is questioning Tampa/Boston just because they got smoked. I do think the number of blowouts is high even in context of Keefes Leafs being generally a good team.

So a long time ago, I was in Raleigh, N.C. and I was trying to make my way back to Ottawa on a night when incredibly high winds were making it hard to fly across the eastern seaboard.  I arrived at the Raleigh airport 2 hours before my flight, only to be told that if I wanted to get to Ottawa that night I would have to be on the next flight to Philadelphia.  The clerk who as doing my check in was worried they were going to start cancelling flights, and shutting down airports.  So he puts me on a flight that is taking off in 30 minutes for Philly and rushes me through security.

I get on the flight to Philly and when we start to do our landing at the Philadelphia airport, we are hit these massive winds that are concerning people.  It's really bad, and the pilot can't get on a descent line that doesn't blow us completely off track of where he wants to land.  Because I was added late, I am at the back of the plane, and this is the worst spot to be at when you hit wind like this.  The plane is thrown around everywhere.  The lady in front of me got sick it was so bad.  We circled the airport for an hour trying to get on a line with a runway, but finally the pilot finds one and we land.

The Philly airport is a complete mess.  Flights have been delayed for over a day for some travelers, and people are on edge.  There is an announcement over the speaker "All those people who are flying to Miami you need to be at gate 42 in terminal C, C as in Cat people.  Move your butts"

I get to my gate and I board this small twin prop plane to fly to Ottawa.  The stewardess does the emergency information speech and starts pointing out the exits, and she ends that part of the speech be saying "However if we have an emergency landing in Canada we won't need those exits anyways, because it is way too damn cold up there at the moment anyways so we aren't going to want to get out of the plane".  We take off without issue as the small plane cuts through the wind with relatively no turbulence.  The flight is pretty smooth all things considered.  Near the end though, with about 20 minutes left in the flight, the pilot comes on and announces "Hello this is your captain speaking.  Okay folks, the flight has been smooth up until this point, but we're being told that there is an ice storm in Ottawa that's pretty severe.  Things are going to get choppy in a couple of minutes.  Look on the bright side though people, in 20 minutes, one way or another, we're going to be on the ground".

So that was my long winded way of saying, and my cheap excuse for telling that story, that look on the bright side people.  In 19 games, one way or another, the Leafs regular season will be done.

 

[Kin]

You can spin it anyway you want but the players know Ayres didn't stone them. He had 3 shots, 2 goals against in the second period and all of 7 shots in the third and not a tough one. They'll be goofing with him today if they see him. These guys don't dwell on things, they can't. Learn, work on stuff in practice and move on.

1. I really don't think "He didn't beat them, they just couldn't figure out how in 30 minutes of hockey to have more than two open looks despite multiple power plays" is the counter-balance you think it is.

2. If this doesn't stick with them for a while then, quite frankly, that says something much, much worse about them. Have at least a modicum of professional pride.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Ah I saw some comments earlier in the thread.  Probably just high emotion comments though.

I don't know if this is in reference to me saying they might want to quietly find him a new job but I'm not suggesting anyone should be mad at him personally. Just that, through no fault of his own, he's now a living, breathing reminder of a really embarrassing night for the Leafs and their fans.

Maybe you're right they don't need that reminder.  Who knows, maybe they actually do.  He's a reminder (obviously a painful one, but nonetheless) of what a team can accomplish when they play tightly together.  I can only hope his presence is and remains a massive wake-up call to the players.

Players can be inspired both positively and negatively.  It's possible Ayres provides a bit of both as a bogeyman mascot.  Who knows, this is obviously uncharted territory.  A couple of months from now I could look back and see this game as a turning point for the better or for the worse for this team.  It's obviously easy to predict it's for the worse, but maybe it won't be.

 

[Highlander]

I?ve been following this team for 38 years.  The best we ever did was final 4 twice. The last couple of years I started not watching every single game like I used to. I?ve missed more games in the last couple of years than I have in the previous 36. I?ve told myself I won?t start watching until they have a playoff spot guaranteed. I?m going back to that. It?s just better for my health.

Like Odin, I have been at this with the team since the last win in 67.  Some gruesome hockey, lots of it.  Had some nice years with Darryl, Lanny, Mikey and then that collapsed into the worst of the Ballard years.  Around 82 I stopped watching completely. I moved to the Caribbean in 90 and didn't even have TV.  When the internet arrived in the late 90's, I started to read about the Leafs again on line and was excited when I returned to the county in the early 2000's to watch them again.
By then we had Sundin, Roberts, Mogilny, Joseph and it was all good again. Pat Quinn, the coach.
After that more of the same until now.
We have never had more forward power and depth than we do now, so I am excited that with a few key Defensive acquisitions and developing some of our prospects that the team fills out and becomes a championship team.  Is it this year, no probably not, but with several key moves, with Souperman and Mango healthy, not to mention Rielly, we will compete again.
We just gotta stay the course.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Oh I agree. And it's going to suck, but I don't know.  Maybe I'm getting numb to it now.  I really don't want to get angry about sports anymore.

I'm not angry about it. Honestly, my suggestions here really are more of a "This is just how I think organizations work" thing.

Like, take the biggest embarrassment of your life. Maybe you did something dumb to impress a girl who then cruelly laughed at you for being dumb or something. There's a big difference between holding onto the memory of it so that you learn your lesson from it(don't do dumb things) which is probably good and healthy and, say, having to talk to that girl every day.

Yeah I guess it feels like you're saying you should force that girl to move away, assuming that's in your power and legal.  Now in your example the girl is cruel, which Ayers has not been, and that may justify to some forcing the girl to move away. To suggest the Leafs should move Ayers out because he beat them in a hockey game seems to be the cruel piece. Ya it sucks, but if you don't like it, be better.

 

[azzurri63]

They know Ayres didn't beat them

Except he literally did. By the way statistics are figured in the NHL, Ayres won that game. In the Record books and everything. 

Take a step back and think about how unpreceden Rdted that is not just for the Leafs or Hockey, but in the history of professional sports.

I'm way more concerned about the team's mass losing than who got the win in one of those loses.  Goalies get wins and losses sure, but it wasn't Ayers' exceptional play that did the Leafs in.

They have bigger issues than having to see Ayers at practice.

Totally agree. If that's what management or anyone else for that matter is worried about him being around this team then this team has bigger issues.
Dubas needs to alter this team because it's not working and personally I think it all started with the Nylander signing.
One of the big 4 has to go maybe 2 of them. Tavares aint going anywhere and Matthews is your best player so that leaves Marner and Nylander.
Start retooling this team and get rid of some of these overpaid young stars who show up for one game then disappear for another.
Start looking to add players ala Nick Robertson who's motor don't stop and compete not only every game but every shift.
Those are the players that win you championships not players who look awesome one game then disappear the next or for that matter aren't built for the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Obviously not a great year with the injuries that we've dealt with but even with a healthy team this team wasn't going anywhere.
Just not constructed to go far. Some of us can see that some can't.
Question is how long do you stick with it?
Tired of listening to these stars and saying "we have to be better". Really no sh*t.
We are 60+ games into the season wake up Dubas, Shanny and start retooling.

 

[Highlander]

Great piece on your flights SI. I do a lot of traveling but those flights take the cake.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

So that was my long winded way of saying, and my cheap excuse for telling that story, that look on the bright side people.  In 19 games, one way or another, the Leafs regular season will be done.

Got confused and went to airport. Purchased cinnabon.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I?ve been following this team for 38 years.  The best we ever did was final 4 twice. The last couple of years I started not watching every single game like I used to. I?ve missed more games in the last couple of years than I have in the previous 36. I?ve told myself I won?t start watching until they have a playoff spot guaranteed. I?m going back to that. It?s just better for my health.

Like Odin, I have been at this with the team since the last win in 67.  Some gruesome hockey, lots of it.  Had some nice years with Darryl, Lanny, Mikey and then that collapsed into the worst of the Ballard years.  Around 82 I stopped watching completely. I moved to the Caribbean in 90 and didn't even have TV.  When the internet arrived in the late 90's, I started to read about the Leafs again on line and was excited when I returned to the county in the early 2000's to watch them again.
By then we had Sundin, Roberts, Mogilny, Joseph and it was all good again. Pat Quinn, the coach.
After that more of the same until now.
We have never had more forward power and depth than we do now, so I am excited that with a few key Defensive acquisitions and developing some of our prospects that the team fills out and becomes a championship team.  Is it this year, no probably not, but with several key moves, with Souperman and Mango healthy, not to mention Rielly, we will compete again.
We just gotta stay the course.

Well said and I agree. Relax, enjoy the ride and check out the sights around you.

 

[Kin]

Yeah I guess it feels like you're saying you should force that girl to move away, assuming that's in your power and legal.

No, I'm just making a point about embarrassment and good ways of dealing with it vs. bad ways and, to be 100% clear, I'm suggesting that if the Leafs felt like my thoughts here were on point that they treat Ayres very well and get him, you know, a better job. Not turn him out into the street.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Yeah I guess it feels like you're saying you should force that girl to move away, assuming that's in your power and legal.

No, I'm just making a point about embarrassment and good ways of dealing with it vs. bad ways and, to be 100% clear, I'm suggesting that if the Leafs felt like my thoughts here were on point that they treat Ayres very well and get him, you know, a better job. Not turn him out into the street.

Sure, move that girl to a nicer house. Lipstick on a pig. Own it, have the team come out next game all wearing Ayers jerseys and donate a million dollars to kideny research. That's what they should do. 

 

[Kin]

Maybe you're right they don't need that reminder.  Who knows, maybe they actually do.  He's a reminder (obviously a painful one, but nonetheless) of what a team can accomplish when they play tightly together.  I can only hope his presence is and remains a massive wake-up call to the players.

Just one thing though is that when I'm talking about him being a symbol of embarrassment that's as much about the organization as it is the players.

Now, I think there are two ways to react to last night. Get angry or be rational. And, as a lot of people have said, rational is the better choice. It's just a game, sports aren't the end of the world, no use being mad about something you can't change and so on. And I think I've tended to preach that this year and I don't really get mad about things that happen with the Leafs.

Problem with that though is that every time I get a reminder like last night about how I should be more rational and less emotional...I get more rational. And when I'm rational about the Leafs, I remember that they kind of treat their fans badly. Charging us the highest ticket prices in the league for an often middling product and so on. As a result, personally, I don't go to games anymore and I don't spend money on merch.

Now, unrelated to last night, MLB.tv just changed their blackout policy which means that watching Baseball this year is going to be more expensive for me. Which already had me thinking about how much I spend on streaming sports services. Right now it's more than 60 bucks a month and two thirds of that is because the Leafs split their games between two lousy overpriced services. I could be kicking 40 bucks more a month towards retirement or donating it to a food bank or whatever.

So if I'm being real rational about last night....eh, I don't know I'm getting great value for that money either and so, players aside, I don't know if MLSE wants me to get too many more nudges towards putting sports in their proper perspective.

 

[Kin]

Sure, move that girl to a nicer house.

Yes, well, thank you for coming to my "analogies are used to make limited, direct points" seminar.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Sure, move that girl to a nicer house.

Yes, well, thank you for coming to my "analogies are used to make limited, direct points" seminar.

I give it an eight out of ten. The lunch didn't have a vegan option and the coffee was bitter.