Idiocracy
- Thread starter Highlander
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hockeyfan1
New member
Poor Spicey. No more Melissa McCarthy-esque laughs. Gonna miss that.
He should write a book and title it "From Spicey With Love: Enjoy!"
He should write a book and title it "From Spicey With Love: Enjoy!"
L K
Active member
The Senate just voted to move forward on their unanimously hated health care bill.
John McCain was the hero of the hour, flying back from his hospital where he receives government funded health care to vote yes to take health care away from other Americans.
You just can't write this movie any better.
John McCain was the hero of the hour, flying back from his hospital where he receives government funded health care to vote yes to take health care away from other Americans.
You just can't write this movie any better.
Kin
New member
L K said:
That's not even the extent to it though. Nobody knows what the bill is. So it was a vote to proceed on "a" health care bill, not anything in particular. All of the so-called moderate Republican senators who said they wouldn't vote for a bill unless they knew it would be better than what they were repealing have no leg to stand on now for voting to proceed with, effectively, a bill to be written later.
I mean, at some point, you just have to shrug your shoulders and acknowledge that this is what America is these days.
That's cute but if your being truthful ObamaCare isn't working in McCain's home State of AZ. There are almost no health care providers accepting the program in the Phoenix area, it isn't doing anything like it was presented to do. They need a new plan but I'm highly doubtful there will be any agreement to restrict costs and have health care for everyone come from this. It started as a simple concept that everyone pays a little so no one has to pay a lot but the young folks just haven't bought in and there really isn't a mechanism to force them to do so. That leaves health providers having to give a reduced cost plan to the people who use it the most and that can't work.
L K said:
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
They need a new plan, but the notion that repealing it without immediately replacing it with a working alternative, is insane and will leave millions of Americans up shit creek without a paddle.
Insurance companies will immediately begin refusing to pay for pre-existing conditions or making them so prohibitively expensive that they are effectively refusing.
Millions of sick people will get much sicker because they can no longer afford the care needed to treat their condition and many of them will die because of this.
This is a death sentence.
Insurance companies will immediately begin refusing to pay for pre-existing conditions or making them so prohibitively expensive that they are effectively refusing.
Millions of sick people will get much sicker because they can no longer afford the care needed to treat their condition and many of them will die because of this.
This is a death sentence.
bustaheims
Active member
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
That covers it pretty well, I'd say. Obamacare certainly isn't perfect, but it was valiant first step towards the type of system they need. Repealing it instead of advancing it helps no one but the rich. The only people who come out ahead under basically every GOP proposal we've heard so far are the top earners in the country and the insurance countries. The people that actually need affordable healthcare? They're getting sold down the river.
Kin
New member
In March, a statewide poll showed that support in Arizona for fixing problems with the ACA outpolled repealing it by 60-37.
http://www.12news.com/news/politics/arizonans-oppose-gops-obamacare-replacement-poll-shows/422678073
But regardless of whatever the flaws might be with the current system at least have the courage to write an alternative to the bill, have hearings on it, get independent CBO scores on what it would mean to people and have senators have to actually stick their necks out and say whether or not they support a proposed piece of legislation.
There is nothing that the GOP has done on this matter that suggests they care at all about transparency or people making informed decisions.
http://www.12news.com/news/politics/arizonans-oppose-gops-obamacare-replacement-poll-shows/422678073
But regardless of whatever the flaws might be with the current system at least have the courage to write an alternative to the bill, have hearings on it, get independent CBO scores on what it would mean to people and have senators have to actually stick their necks out and say whether or not they support a proposed piece of legislation.
There is nothing that the GOP has done on this matter that suggests they care at all about transparency or people making informed decisions.
I think ideally you would take the ACA, put a mechanism in place to force everyone to pay, and then force all health care providers to accept the plan, and work on reducing costs from health care providers would be the path forward. But someone will be against forcing people to pay and some else will be against restricting billing for health care providers and around and around they go.
Not really, it's paid for by everyone with the ability to buy better insurance like now. But no one gets left with no insurance. And there is a reasonable price for each service so gauging gets taken away. But single payer might be a better option than present but it would still require a cap on costs as they are out of whack down south.
Nik the Trik said:
bustaheims
Active member
I mean, the difference between that and a single payer system is pretty thin. Change the "force everyone to pay" to have it be part of their taxes, and you're basically there.
bustaheims
Active member
Bates said:
Which isn't that difference from what we have under a single payer system here in Canada. You can still buy levels of insurance if you want to be covered past what the government provides - so, if you want dental, vision, etc, covered - and you have some choice over your healthcare provider - maybe not absolute freedom, but, you have the ability/option to choose your family doctor and certain specialists.
I mean, really, what you're proposing is a decentralized/privatized version of a single payer system.
Kin
New member
Bates said:
It's not like "it just didn't get there". There was zero support for a public option on the right.
But more to the point there's really no way to get insurance companies to offer health care plans at reasonable costs if they have to insure people who need lots and lots of health care and people who need relatively little at roughly the same rates(and expecting people with serious health care needs to pay out of pocket isn't a solution). Either, by virtue of involving the private sector, you expect consumers to subsidize the poor and sick or you do it by means of a public pool of tax revenue. I don't see what private insurance does in that situation other than raise prices on everyone.
Kin
New member
Bates said:
Right. The problem being that a lot of healthy people aren't buying in which is why premiums are going up as for-profit health care providers try to maintain profitability while covering sick people. That's why this system was always doomed to struggle without a public option that would eliminate profit motive from health care costs.
The ACA hasn't really worked because it tried to dip a toe into widespread healthcare coverage while still keeping one foot firmly ensconced in the idea that people's health should be a for-profit industry. I never thought it was great policy but it was a compromise between what Clinton and Obama initially wanted with single payer/public option and the GOP's inclination towards effectively nothing. Even Mitt Romney, who introduced a similar insurance market system in Massachusetts as governor, essentially had to run away from the idea in order to be the GOP nom for President.
Like Herman says the rest of the world has gone with the idea of a national health care system funded by a progressive income tax with limited private options. I don't really think that's a wheel that needs re-inventing.
I agree with all of that but the US is not heading anywhere near a direction that gets rid of health insurance providers any time in the near future. That's why I suggested a slow realing in of insurance companies and providers while forcing all citizens to buy into the program. Just another way of heading towards single payer that the masses just might be able to swallow.
Nik the Trik said: