Is Burke Handicapping Himself?

[sickbeast]

I agree that Burke's lack of doing anything is odd.  It can lead to the conclusion that he's handicapping himself or trying to tank.  I can't figure it out personally.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I agree that Burke's lack of doing anything is odd.  It can lead to the conclusion that he's handicapping himself or trying to tank.  I can't figure it out personally.

It's really not difficult to figure out, and many people have brought it up already - maybe there isn't anything that makes sense to do right now.  Maybe he's trying to make moves and the only thing he's being offered is Travis Moen for Jake Gardiner it is a better move to do "nothing" rather than do something just so you can be satisfied he's doing "something."

 

[sickbeast]

I agree that Burke's lack of doing anything is odd.  It can lead to the conclusion that he's handicapping himself or trying to tank.  I can't figure it out personally.

It's really not difficult to figure out, and many people have brought it up already - maybe there isn't anything that makes sense to do right now.  Maybe he's trying to make moves and the only thing he's being offered is Travis Moen for Jake Gardiner it is a better move to do "nothing" rather than do something just so you can be satisfied he's doing "something."

Maybe.  If he really wanted a goalie he could have signed one.  I find it hard to believe that it's really that hard for him to make a deal.  Look at AA with the Jays.  He's acquired at least 4 pitchers now.  If your team has a need it's your job as the GM to plug the holes.

 

[Andy007]

I agree that Burke's lack of doing anything is odd.  It can lead to the conclusion that he's handicapping himself or trying to tank.  I can't figure it out personally.

It's really not difficult to figure out, and many people have brought it up already - maybe there isn't anything that makes sense to do right now.  Maybe he's trying to make moves and the only thing he's being offered is Travis Moen for Jake Gardiner it is a better move to do "nothing" rather than do something just so you can be satisfied he's doing "something."

Maybe.  If he really wanted a goalie he could have signed one.  I find it hard to believe that it's really that hard for him to make a deal.  Look at AA with the Jays.  He's acquired at least 4 pitchers now.  If your team has a need it's your job as the GM to plug the holes.

AA acquired relief pitchers. The team desperately needs starting pitching. Also, none of those moves was overwhelmingly a good deal for the Jays either. But anyway why would one compare the moves of a GM in a completely different sport and league during the trade deadline to Burke and his offseason in August?

 

[sickbeast]

I agree that Burke's lack of doing anything is odd.  It can lead to the conclusion that he's handicapping himself or trying to tank.  I can't figure it out personally.

It's really not difficult to figure out, and many people have brought it up already - maybe there isn't anything that makes sense to do right now.  Maybe he's trying to make moves and the only thing he's being offered is Travis Moen for Jake Gardiner it is a better move to do "nothing" rather than do something just so you can be satisfied he's doing "something."

Maybe.  If he really wanted a goalie he could have signed one.  I find it hard to believe that it's really that hard for him to make a deal.  Look at AA with the Jays.  He's acquired at least 4 pitchers now.  If your team has a need it's your job as the GM to plug the holes.

AA acquired relief pitchers. The team desperately needs starting pitching. Also, none of those moves was overwhelmingly a good deal for the Jays either. But anyway why would one compare the moves of a GM in a completely different sport and league during the trade deadline to Burke and his offseason in August?

Two of the pitchers he got can be used as starters.  We're getting sidetracked, though.

To respond to what you're saying, basically I think that any GM worth their salt will fill needs when they arise.  I think a month or two is a reasonable timeline.  Burke has had far longer than that to find a goalie and a centre.  You can say JVR is a centre but really we need more than just him to do better.

 

[Tigger]

Of course he is. The bottom line is that this management team isnt smart enough to overcome self- imposed restrictions. If they were able to do it, they would have alot better of a team then they currently do.

What Burke has done is kill the idea of ever getting any impact player in free agency because players arent going to turn down more money & term that another team is going to offer. The draft becomes essential because trading for impact players is going to be difficult. This teams scouting staff isnt good enough to get the job done.

I don't think these 'restrictions' have stopped much of anything for the management group. Buying free agents in a down year for talent is dicey no matter, what impact player did they miss out on that they really had a chance to acquire?

Also, where are you drawing your conclusions about the scouting staff from ( pro, amateur? ).

 

[rdowdall]

I think one of the reasons Burke hasn't done anything is because he is waiting for the new CBA.  At least I hope that's what he is waiting for.  It would make sense to be prudent right now, as the landscape may change and maybe he figures he may have more avenues open to him after the new CBA has been signed.

Of course if that is the case, he may be wrong, and he may have less.  We won't really know until the CBA is signed or he makes a deal.

This is purely speculation on my part. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I think one of the reasons Burke hasn't done anything is because he is waiting for the new CBA.  At least I hope that's what he is waiting for.  It would make sense to be prudent right now, as the landscape may change and maybe he figures he may have more avenues open to him after the new CBA has been signed.

Of course if that is the case, he may be wrong, and he may have less.  We won't really know until the CBA is signed or he makes a deal.

This is purely speculation on my part. 

I'd say that's a very good guess, particularly in the Luongo situation.

 

[Mike1]

Of course he is. The bottom line is that this management team isnt smart enough to overcome self- imposed restrictions. If they were able to do it, they would have alot better of a team then they currently do.

What Burke has done is kill the idea of ever getting any impact player in free agency because players arent going to turn down more money & term that another team is going to offer. The draft becomes essential because trading for impact players is going to be difficult. This teams scouting staff isnt good enough to get the job done.

Also, where are you drawing your conclusions about the scouting staff from ( pro, amateur? ).

When was the last time the Leafs drafted a player of any significance? By that I`am talking about a core player. If this team had any keen eye for talent at the draft table, they wouldnt be in the situation they are in. 

You can add pro scouting to my point as well. When you look at the restrictions that are the theme of this topic, smart free agent signings need to be made because you arent getting a top talent in FA. Burkes free agent acquisitions have been abysmal. Outside of Clarke MacArthur, the players he has brought in have been nothing but detrimental to the team.

The Leafs have problems at center & goalie because they cant draft them. Which is where most teams get them & not always with top picks. The scouting eye of the organization(Amateur & Pro) has been substandard for a long time.

 

[riff raff]

The Leafs have problems at center & goalie because they cant draft them. Which is where most teams get them & not always with top picks. The scouting eye of the organization(Amateur & Pro) has been substandard for a long time.

The Leafs drafted Tuukka Rask who is poised to be the starting goaltender for the Boston Bruins. I'm sure most of us would like to have that precious little trade back.

The problem isn't just not drafting impact players, it's holding on to them long enough for them to develop into impact players.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

The Leafs drafted Tuukka Rask who is poised to be the starting goaltender for the Boston Bruins.

 

[Tigger]

Of course he is. The bottom line is that this management team isnt smart enough to overcome self- imposed restrictions. If they were able to do it, they would have alot better of a team then they currently do.

What Burke has done is kill the idea of ever getting any impact player in free agency because players arent going to turn down more money & term that another team is going to offer. The draft becomes essential because trading for impact players is going to be difficult. This teams scouting staff isnt good enough to get the job done.

Also, where are you drawing your conclusions about the scouting staff from ( pro, amateur? ).

When was the last time the Leafs drafted a player of any significance? By that I`am talking about a core player. If this team had any keen eye for talent at the draft table, they wouldnt be in the situation they are in. 

You can add pro scouting to my point as well. When you look at the restrictions that are the theme of this topic, smart free agent signings need to be made because you arent getting a top talent in FA. Burkes free agent acquisitions have been abysmal. Outside of Clarke MacArthur, the players he has brought in have been nothing but detrimental to the team.

The Leafs have problems at center & goalie because they cant draft them. Which is where most teams get them & not always with top picks. The scouting eye of the organization(Amateur & Pro) has been substandard for a long time.

You're shifting your argument here so I'm just going to talk about the point you were trying to make which has little to do with past regimes.

I don't think you can point to this amateur scouting staff and say anything hugely definitive like that. I like what they've done with what they've had but we don't really know yet.

As for the pro scouts, there's been a few real stinkers recently, sure, a couple meh's and a couple decent signings but there's also been some influence from them in trades. Again, with what's been available and willing, I don't hate what Burke's crew has done in the last couple years anywhere close to how much I didn't like the cost for Kessel, and I mean, he's a young elite scorer.

I think it's the heavy handedness of 'can't get the job done' that I'm more disagreeing with there, especially with the amateur scouts.

 

[sickbeast]

The Leafs drafted Tuukka Rask who is poised to be the starting goaltender for the Boston Bruins.

 

[Mike1]

Of course he is. The bottom line is that this management team isnt smart enough to overcome self- imposed restrictions. If they were able to do it, they would have alot better of a team then they currently do.

What Burke has done is kill the idea of ever getting any impact player in free agency because players arent going to turn down more money & term that another team is going to offer. The draft becomes essential because trading for impact players is going to be difficult. This teams scouting staff isnt good enough to get the job done.

Also, where are you drawing your conclusions about the scouting staff from ( pro, amateur? ).

When was the last time the Leafs drafted a player of any significance? By that I`am talking about a core player. If this team had any keen eye for talent at the draft table, they wouldnt be in the situation they are in. 

You can add pro scouting to my point as well. When you look at the restrictions that are the theme of this topic, smart free agent signings need to be made because you arent getting a top talent in FA. Burkes free agent acquisitions have been abysmal. Outside of Clarke MacArthur, the players he has brought in have been nothing but detrimental to the team.

The Leafs have problems at center & goalie because they cant draft them. Which is where most teams get them & not always with top picks. The scouting eye of the organization(Amateur & Pro) has been substandard for a long time.

You're shifting your argument here so I'm just going to talk about the point you were trying to make which has little to do with past regimes.

I don't think you can point to this amateur scouting staff and say anything hugely definitive like that. I like what they've done with what they've had but we don't really know yet.

As for the pro scouts, there's been a few real stinkers recently, sure, a couple meh's and a couple decent signings but there's also been some influence from them in trades. Again, with what's been available and willing, I don't hate what Burke's crew has done in the last couple years anywhere close to how much I didn't like the cost for Kessel, and I mean, he's a young elite scorer.

I think it's the heavy handedness of 'can't get the job done' that I'm more disagreeing with there, especially with the amateur scouts.

History tells us all we need to know. When Burke came into the organization, he didnt overhaul the amateur scouting staff. He kept on guys like Morrison, who became director of amateur scouting in 06. These guys have had a fair amount of time to prove themselves.

The Leafs drafted Tuukka Rask who is poised to be the starting goaltender for the Boston Bruins. I'm sure most of us would like to have that precious little trade back.

The problem isn't just not drafting impact players, it's holding on to them long enough for them to develop into impact players.

Even when the amateur scouts find a player, the pro scouts sink the organization by trading for weak talent.

The organization also has a "hand a youngster a job" problem. When any young player looks decent, they throw him right into the limelight. Wouldnt James Reimer have been better off being back-up for a couple of seasons? Let his confidence grow at the NHL level & gain experience. Look at the difference in the way Reimer was handled in comparison to someone like Rask in Boston or Schneider in Vancouver. Did they play their young goalies right way? No.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Because they had Roberto Luongo and Tim Thomas, two of the best goalies over the past decade.  When the Leafs had CuJo or Belfour they didn't 'play their young goalies right away.'

 

[moon111]

Two young goalies have shaky games.  Confidence waivering.  One plays for a defensive team that gets him a shut-out the next game.  The other plays for the Leafs under Ron 'Throw them all under a bus' Wilson.  Which young goalie gets his game back on track and which one falters?  Whether it be Rask or Raycroft, a good team in front can make any goalie look good.  I don't think it was a matter of making Reimer the starter, as it was not giving either goalie a chance to restore their confidence.

 

[Knobby]

It can be said as well, a great goalie makes a bad team look good. Cujo's 1st year as a Leaf especially. They only went to the conference finals that year.

 

[moon111]

It can be said as well, a great goalie makes a bad team look good. Cujo's 1st year as a Leaf especially. They only went to the conference finals that year.

But Cujo was in his 10th year.  You can't expect a rookie to carry a team, especially one like Toronto, unless he's the most unbelievable talent or the team sometimes buckles down and gives him that extra level of protection. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

We should be like the Devils, they're so patient with their young goalies.  They've had 19 years to develop! 

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The organization also has a "hand a youngster a job" problem. When any young player looks decent, they throw him right into the limelight. Wouldnt James Reimer have been better off being back-up for a couple of seasons? Let his confidence grow at the NHL level & gain experience. Look at the difference in the way Reimer was handled in comparison to someone like Rask in Boston or Schneider in Vancouver. Did they play their young goalies right way? No.

Like it's been said, it's a heck of a lot easier to allow your young guys to mature when you have Luongo and Thomas already between the pipes.

Plus, Reimer wasn't thrust into the spotlight. He was given plenty of time to develop in the minors(drafted in '06) and was only forced into action when the Leafs goalies were struggling and he had basically forced himself into the line up and then took the starting job and ran with it.

After attending the Maple Leafs training camp in September 2008, he was assigned to the Toronto Marlies of the American Hockey League (AHL). After starting the season with the Marlies, Reimer was assigned to the Reading Royals of the ECHL. He was recalled by the Marlies and recorded his first AHL win by a score of 3?2 in a shootout on December 27, 2008 against the Manitoba Moose.[14] In two stints with the Marlies, Reimer had a record of one win and two losses, with a goals against average (GAA) of 3.28 and a .882 save percentage.[7] With the Royals, Reimer had a record of ten wins, seven losses and three ties.[7] At the ECHL trade deadline, Reimer was moved to the South Carolina Stingrays, a team that had gone through eight goaltenders during the season.[15] The deal was facilitated to expose Reimer to post-season experience, as the Royals were out of playoff contention.[15] While with the Stingrays, Reimer helped them win the 2009 Kelly Cup championship. Recording four wins and one shutout over eight games in the post-season, he was named the ECHL Playoffs Most Valuable Player.[10]

After attending the Maple Leafs training camp ahead of the 2009?10 National Hockey League (NHL) season, Reimer was again sent down to the AHL. As part of the Marlies' pre-season, Reimer competed in the Gardiner Cup, held as part of Scotland's 2009 Homecoming celebrations. He stopped 33 shots in the final as the Marlies lost 3?1 to the Hamilton Bulldogs.[16] Back in the AHL, he spent the majority of the 2009?10 season with the Marlies, playing in 26 games and recording 14 wins. He had a GAA of 2.25 and a save percentage of .925.[7] Reimer was called up by the Leafs on an emergency basis on October 13, 2009, when starting goaltender Vesa Toskala was injured.[17] Serving as Joey MacDonald's backup, he did not receive any playing time in his first NHL call-up; he was sent back down to the Marlies on October 25, 2009. Reimer missed significant time with an ankle injury during the 2009?10 season. It was not the same ankle he injured during his final season with the Red Deer Rebels.[15]

At the outset of the 2010?11 NHL season, Reimer again was assigned to the AHL's Marlies. Reimer was not expected to contribute to the Maple Leafs at the NHL level during the 2010?11 season. Expectations for the young netminder were low heading into the season, with head coach Ron Wilson saying "We wanted him to play in the minors and continue to get better, develop and try to stay healthy."[18] He was recalled by the Maple Leafs several months into the season, making his NHL debut on December 20, 2010 in relief of Jonas Gustavsson against the Atlanta Thrashers. He played 14 minutes in the third period, stopping all four shots he faced.[19] Reimer made his first NHL start against the Ottawa Senators on January 1, 2011. The Maple Leafs won the game 5?1, with Reimer recording 32 saves while picking up his first career NHL win.[20] On February 3, 2011, Reimer recorded 27 saves and picked up his first career NHL shutout against the Carolina Hurricanes.[21] A combination of injuries and poor play by Gustavsson and Jean-Sebastien Giguere provided an opportunity for Reimer at the NHL level. His strong play caused the Leafs to carry three goalies on their NHL roster, a fact which did not surprise Giguere, who said "The way he played the last time he was up, you knew he was going to get another chance."[22] Leafs head coach Ron Wilson acknowledged Reimer as the team's starting goalie as they set out on a late-season run for a playoff spot, saying "It?s going to be his ball the rest of the way. As long as we stay in the race. And I think he?s up to it." [23]

To add to that, Reimer was drafted in the 4th round, 99th overall which kind of shoots your amateur scouting bs argument out the window.