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Is this the turning point???

Given the anti-climactic colour of this season, I would not be the least bit disappointed if the Leafs tank this year, grab a great pick, shed salary in the off-season, and sign a great free-agent or two (or three).  A fairly unoriginal thought, granted (since Cox and McCowan have been writing / saying the same thing recently), but I think that this might be the most reasonable and logical approach this year.
 
Bender said:
Joe S. said:
I love your optimism, I really do, but no, I don't think this is a turning point.

If anything this is a transition year. People are clamoring for goaltending, but the leafs are sorely lacking a quality centre. I like Grabovski as much as anyone, but on a talented team he's the third line centre (much like Reichel was great in that role when he was here - and don't laugh, he was).

Until that is addressed, putting a star goalie between the pipes is really just masking the real problem.

I know he probably didn't deserve the flak he got but...

Actually he kinda did. He followed up his only one good regular season (20 goals 50 points) with 12 and 11 goals, respectively, barely reaching 40 points once. And his playoff totals, which are probably the reason he got so much criticism, are absolutely abysmal. In 02, when the Leafs were riddled with injuries and needed guys to step up, he played 18 playoff games and had 0 goals, 3 points total. In his 20 other playoff games he totaled 5 points.  So yea, flak earned imo.
 
Joe S. said:
I love your optimism, I really do, but no, I don't think this is a turning point.

If anything this is a transition year. People are clamoring for goaltending, but the leafs are sorely lacking a quality centre. I like Grabovski as much as anyone, but on a talented team he's the third line centre (much like Reichel was great in that role when he was here - and don't laugh, he was).

Until that is addressed, putting a star goalie between the pipes is really just masking the real problem.

I think you're completely underrating Grabovski. He's not a borderline third liner, he's a borderline 1st liner. Going by points alone, he was 31st among centers last year with his ppg being higher than at least 4 of the centers with more points than him.

In my opinion, he's one of the best 2nd line centers in the league and would be 3rd line center on the Penguins and the Kings, but those are exceptional circumstances. (Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, and Richards being 1st liners.)
 
Bullfrog said:
Joe S. said:
I love your optimism, I really do, but no, I don't think this is a turning point.

If anything this is a transition year. People are clamoring for goaltending, but the leafs are sorely lacking a quality centre. I like Grabovski as much as anyone, but on a talented team he's the third line centre (much like Reichel was great in that role when he was here - and don't laugh, he was).

Until that is addressed, putting a star goalie between the pipes is really just masking the real problem.

I think you're completely underrating Grabovski. He's not a borderline third liner, he's a borderline 1st liner. Going by points alone, he was 31st among centers last year with his ppg being higher than at least 4 of the centers with more points than him.

In my opinion, he's one of the best 2nd line centers in the league and would be 3rd line center on the Penguins and the Kings, but those are exceptional circumstances. (Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, and Richards being 1st liners.)

Agreed. And I loved Reichel, he was a great 3rd line centre like Joe says. But Grabs is a step above that.
 
The shortened season and lack of a long training camp could produce a few surprises this year around the league. We'll probably have a good indication of how this team will do by Feb.
 
Bill_Berg said:
The shortened season and lack of a long training camp could produce a few surprises this year around the league. We'll probably have a good indication of how this team will do by Feb.

And we may just be one of them surprises.
 
I think the #1 line for the Leafs is going to be Kulemin, Grabovski, and JVR.  Lupul/Bozak/Kessel are the Sergei Berezin line.  Offensively-orientated and totally predictable.  Teams figured it out.  I think a turning point might be the drive, excitement, energy from a Komarov/Kadri/JVR line.  Or it could be a parade to the penalty box.  Speaking of the PK...  Jay McClement is in!  Steckel is still here.  I'm not sure who the #3 and #4 forwards on the PK will be.  On defense, I'm more worried about Liles then Komi.  In net, I feel just as confident in Reimer as I do with Cory Scheider in Vancouver. 
 
moon111 said:
I think the #1 line for the Leafs is going to be Kulemin, Grabovski, and JVR.  Lupul/Bozak/Kessel are the Sergei Berezin line.  Offensively-orientated and totally predictable.  Teams figured it out.  I think a turning point might be the drive, excitement, energy from a Komarov/Kadri/JVR line.  Or it could be a parade to the penalty box.  Speaking of the PK...  Jay McClement is in!  Steckel is still here.  I'm not sure who the #3 and #4 forwards on the PK will be.  On defense, I'm more worried about Liles then Komi.  In net, I feel just as confident in Reimer as I do with Cory Scheider in Vancouver.

I think your 2/3rds right about the #1 line.

Kulemin, Grabovski, and MacCarthur should hit the ground running (hit the ice flying?) because they've been playing during the lockout. If Kulemin can play like he did when this line was on fire 2 seasons ago, we're in for a treat. I'll bet they become the de facto first line; at least early on.
 
hap_leaf said:
I think you will see a healthier balance between GA and GF.  Not that it will bring the ultimate success that you describe because we simply do not have the talent to be anything better than middle of the pack in both categories.  If Joe Colborne wakes up one day and becomes an NHL #1 C then it would solve one of the lingering problems.

He picked up his game of late and is getting more ice time, including power play. He has some nice tools, and his skating has improved. He needs to build his confidence and put his game together. With Kadri hopefully making the leap to stay (?), it might be what Colborne needs, an example of determination to stick with it and a chance to be the lead guy down on the farm.
 
Wow! I watched the season intro show on sports net, and they all picked toronto to finish close to the bottom. they even made fun of them. I just dont see them as being as bad as the panel is saying they are. If we get the goaltending I see them as one of the east 8. our forwards were 6th in the east and we added more scoring, our young d now are a yr older and with one of the better coaches in the NHL, it seems all we need is for the goaltending to show up and when them two were on the Marlies they were great as a pair, they gave each other drive. lets hope they do the same here now that they are together again.
I see the sports media as being way off on this next to last call. Again I call 6th-8th and our goalies show why management has kept faith in them.
 
I think it is simply fashionable in the media to bash the Leafs because of past performance. The question is what team is going to show up, the one that opened the season last year or the one that closed it?

Upfront, I think we have a general idea of what we are going to get with, the first two lines. Kessel and Lupul might find it tough to duplicate last year's start, but may finish about the same, if both stay healthy. I think Bozak still has some more upside. I think the second line will be better than last year, especially Kulemin, but maybe not as good the year prior to that, somewhere in between. I would like to see Carlyle push Kulemin to be more physical. I remember his big hit on Kaleta last year. He's a strong body that could do more of that. The forward line that intrigues me most is what appears to be a third line of JVR, Kadri and either Komo or Frattin. I think that is the most "potential" I've seen in a third line Leaf unit in a long time. Two high first round picks, which if they both pan out, could make a huge difference. Komo also could be the first real agitator since Darcy Tucker, and I think Frattin just needs to find some consistency. It will be interesting to see how this line plays out. If Komo could have the opposing team focused on him, as has been mentioned, that might create some space the other two. On the other hand, Frattin would create 3 real scoring threats on that line. That's not to say Komo can't score some, but maybe he plays on a fourth line with McClement and Brown, which I don't think would be too shabby.

On the D, I think Rielly gets an audition only for up to 5 games until Gardiner is back in. With Gardiner, Gunner and Liles on the left side defence, Rielly goes back to continue his development. But this way they can make sure on Gardiner while giving Rielly a look at the top level. Phanuef gets paired with Gunner, Gardiner and Liles get paired with Kosta and Komisarek, with Fraser or Holtzer as the spare (or maybe Komi as spare). I am okay with defence, if Carlyle gets a solid system in place, and Gardiner continues to progress, no injury or sophomore slump (I really don't see the latter happening with him).

In goal, I think we audition Reimer and Scrivens to see where they are at and how the Luongo situation plays out. Nonis is smart to sit on this. We really don't know what we have yet in Reimer and Scrivens in my mind. Can Reimer be the goalie he was two years ago? Can Scrivens AHL success translate up to the bigs? Is Luongo maybe on a downward slide? He certainly hasn't looked that great in camp, but maybe he's already moved on in his mind.

Also, the Leafs have to consider the Canucks need help down the middle, and if the Leafs trade Bozak or Kadri in a deal for him, they are going to be even more thin at centre than they already are. Moving Connolly and Lombardi out so quickly may mean a Luongo deal isn't so close. If Connolly clears, and a deal is swung, he could be recalled, but I think they'd rather be rid of him period.

Best case scenario for this Leafs this year is 1) One of the young goalies really emerges and proves worthy as number one tender. 2) JVR, Kadri and Frattin/Komo blossom into something special, they surprise sort of the way the second line did two years ago.

Of course, we need Carlyle system to take hold and be relatively injury free. A lot of ifs, but you never know. It should be interesting and answer a number of questions. I am glad to see, though, the new Nonis-Carlyle tandem is being decisive and going with the youth. Playoffs this year would be great, but big picture is more important. 
 
nutman said:
That third line has me hyped. I cant wait until sat night. ;D ;D ;D
Agreed, let's just hope they come through. I think the fact that both JVR and Kadri are playing together is a good thing in that both have high expectations, so they kind of share the responsibility of making it work, rather than having the spotlight entirely on just one of them. These are high first round picks, if they can reach that potential it would be very cool.
 
I basically expect a repeat of this. We quickly forget how good we were last year at a point. Nonis knows this full well.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/30/ron-wilson-says-dion-phaneuf-is-the-nhls-best-defenseman-by-a-country-mile/

btw, Ron Wilson wasn't "crazy" last year when he complimented Phaneuf in a quite uncharacteristic praising by a coach renown for being tough on players in the media. Phaneuf on his game is 100% capable of carrying this team on a nightly basis.

They got rid of "passengers" like Lombardi and Connolly and are now going to go in guns blazing with young guys like Kadri and even Frattin. This team is full of guys who all know each other, and will be dancing early. It's going to be beautiful to watch.

All dependent on Reimer/Scrivens of course, but still have a great feeling.
 
mjmgrand said:
I basically expect a repeat of this. We quickly forget how good we were last year at a point. Nonis knows this full well.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/30/ron-wilson-says-dion-phaneuf-is-the-nhls-best-defenseman-by-a-country-mile/

btw, Ron Wilson wasn't "crazy" last year when he complimented Phaneuf in a quite uncharacteristic praising by a coach renown for being tough on players in the media. Phaneuf on his game is 100% capable of carrying this team on a nightly basis.

They got rid of "passengers" like Lombardi and Connolly and are now going to go in guns blazing with young guys like Kadri and even Frattin. This team is full of guys who all know each other, and will be dancing early. It's going to be beautiful to watch.

All dependent on Reimer/Scrivens of course, but still have a great feeling.

Dion Phaneuf is at his worst when he's trying to carry this team.
 
moon111 said:
I think the #1 line for the Leafs is going to be Kulemin, Grabovski, and JVR.  Lupul/Bozak/Kessel are the Sergei Berezin line.  Offensively-orientated and totally predictable.  Teams figured it out.

How do you deduce that a line which had two PPG players on it as being 'figured out'?
 
Corn Flake said:
moon111 said:
I think the #1 line for the Leafs is going to be Kulemin, Grabovski, and JVR.  Lupul/Bozak/Kessel are the Sergei Berezin line.  Offensively-orientated and totally predictable.  Teams figured it out.

How do you deduce that a line which had two PPG players on it as being 'figured out'?

Not to mention Perreault and Berezin had 50 point seasons in their final year together.
 
TML fan said:
Corn Flake said:
moon111 said:
I think the #1 line for the Leafs is going to be Kulemin, Grabovski, and JVR.  Lupul/Bozak/Kessel are the Sergei Berezin line.  Offensively-orientated and totally predictable.  Teams figured it out.

How do you deduce that a line which had two PPG players on it as being 'figured out'?

Not to mention Perreault and Berezin had 50 point seasons in their final year together.

Yeah (no offence intended to moon111) that Berezin/Perreault comparison to Kessel/Lupul is something the Leafs-hating West coast media would come up with.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
mjmgrand said:
I basically expect a repeat of this. We quickly forget how good we were last year at a point. Nonis knows this full well.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/30/ron-wilson-says-dion-phaneuf-is-the-nhls-best-defenseman-by-a-country-mile/

btw, Ron Wilson wasn't "crazy" last year when he complimented Phaneuf in a quite uncharacteristic praising by a coach renown for being tough on players in the media. Phaneuf on his game is 100% capable of carrying this team on a nightly basis.

They got rid of "passengers" like Lombardi and Connolly and are now going to go in guns blazing with young guys like Kadri and even Frattin. This team is full of guys who all know each other, and will be dancing early. It's going to be beautiful to watch.

All dependent on Reimer/Scrivens of course, but still have a great feeling.

Dion Phaneuf is at his worst when he's trying to carry this team.

The point is that he is capable, but doesn't have to. Lupul, Kessel, JVR, Grabovski and possibly Kulemin, Kadri and Gardiner will emerge as on-ice catalysts on a nightly basis.

 

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