Jake Gardiner

[rdowdall]

I can throw my hat in the ring on this one.    There actually can be some benefit to playing with the slower element of the AHL for Gardiner to get his timing back in shape, but if he is truly suffering from persistent cognitive impairments, it really doesn't matter whether he is playing in the NHL or AHL, it won't change anything.

Which is why the signs that he is becoming the player he was are encouraging.  Still needs to be seen if he can play at the same level in the NHL that he did last year.  I know everyone is excited about Gardiner.  I worry though that he is going to be closer to Brett Hedican than he is Brian Leetch.  Not that there is anything wrong with the way Brett Hedican played the game, just that the Leafs really need a Brian Leetch type of player.

The only reasonable argument would be that the Leafs feel he is exposed too much and would be a liability on the ice.  I think that argument is pretty much laughable given that Kostka is playing regular minutes and Holzer has been found to be incompetent in more than a handful of games.

I think that is what is opening the door up for questions.  They were protected when they first sent him down because of the injury and they could use that as an excuse.  Now that he appears to have gotten his game back, why is he still down there?  What possible reason could you have for keeping a guy that was seen as having a pretty bright future on your farm club?

I do have to disagree that there isn't a distinction between physical reaction and mental reaction though.  The difference would be that his physical capabilities are there and that at times he would be showing his ability to rush the puck up the ice.  He would have points in the game where he could blow past defenders with his speed and dipsy-doodle the puck into the offensive zone.  If he is mentally slow, he wouldnt' be able to make those plays because his mind would be preventing him from anticipating where the opposition will play against him.

I didn't actually get to see him play in the two games.  I just got to read the follow ups.  What I read said that he looked like he was half a step behind.  Was that true?

 

[bustaheims]

mirtle: Carlyle on Gardiner: "He has NHL quality skills... It's just a matter of when (he'll be back)."

 

[LuncheonMeat]

This is being blown way out of proportion, I thought it was funny, he could have been much more pointed if he actually wanted to cause a controversy.

This is Toronto where hockey is #1 in the market, you don't make comments like that as a player agent even if it's tongue in cheek.  Not like he's saying it privately to someone, he's open tweeting it to everyone to shine attention on the fact his player is in the minors.  It can also be taken more than one way, does it mean "free him to play for the Leafs" or "trade him"?

Just as a point to that, Gardiner is now fielding questions from press about what his agent tweeted.  He shouldn't have put his player in this position, at best it was ignorant of the agent thinking it wouldn't cause any controversy even if he was making a joke.

I agree, it was really crappy to make that comment and then refuse to answer questions, leaving Gardiner to explain his agent's tweet.  The other point that was brought up was does that tweet imply freeing him from the AHL or from the Leaf's organization.  Perhaps if he had responded to requests for comment everyone would have know.  Funny, but just plain stupid. 

 

[lc9]

This is being blown way out of proportion, I thought it was funny, he could have been much more pointed if he actually wanted to cause a controversy.

This is Toronto where hockey is #1 in the market, you don't make comments like that as a player agent even if it's tongue in cheek.  Not like he's saying it privately to someone, he's open tweeting it to everyone to shine attention on the fact his player is in the minors.  It can also be taken more than one way, does it mean "free him to play for the Leafs" or "trade him"?

Just as a point to that, Gardiner is now fielding questions from press about what his agent tweeted.  He shouldn't have put his player in this position, at best it was ignorant of the agent thinking it wouldn't cause any controversy even if he was making a joke.

Or maybe Gardiner asked his agent to do it.

 

[Zee]

This is being blown way out of proportion, I thought it was funny, he could have been much more pointed if he actually wanted to cause a controversy.

This is Toronto where hockey is #1 in the market, you don't make comments like that as a player agent even if it's tongue in cheek.  Not like he's saying it privately to someone, he's open tweeting it to everyone to shine attention on the fact his player is in the minors.  It can also be taken more than one way, does it mean "free him to play for the Leafs" or "trade him"?

Just as a point to that, Gardiner is now fielding questions from press about what his agent tweeted.  He shouldn't have put his player in this position, at best it was ignorant of the agent thinking it wouldn't cause any controversy even if he was making a joke.

Or maybe Gardiner asked his agent to do it.

Somehow I doubt that.  The agent if he had any sense would advise his client it's not a smart idea if he did.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Gardiner's already said that was his agent's opinion, not his.

 

[bustaheims]

mirtle: Carlyle on Gardiner: "[We want him at a level] where he?s probably too good for the AHL. And I haven?t heard anybody tell me that he has."

mirtle: Carlyle: "Jake had an opportunity here. He played two games for our hockey club and we felt he was nowhere near where he needed to be."

jonasTSN1050: Carlyle: "When we feel it?s time for Jake Gardiner to come back we?re going to make that decision...[cont'd].

jonasTSN1050: Carlyle: "and we?re not going to be influenced by anybody other than the people that are doing the assessing..."

 

[Zee]

mirtle: Carlyle on Gardiner: "[We want him at a level] where he?s probably too good for the AHL. And I haven?t heard anybody tell me that he has."

mirtle: Carlyle: "Jake had an opportunity here. He played two games for our hockey club and we felt he was nowhere near where he needed to be."

jonasTSN1050: Carlyle: "When we feel it?s time for Jake Gardiner to come back we?re going to make that decision...[cont'd].

jonasTSN1050: Carlyle: "and we?re not going to be influenced by anybody other than the people that are doing the assessing..."

So in Carlyle's worldview Holzer > Gardiner right now.  Right...

 

[bustaheims]

So in Carlyle's worldview Holzer > Gardiner right now.  Right...

For the respective roles they play, sure. Gardiner would not make a very good stay-at-home defensive type.

 

[Leaflifer]

So in Carlyle's worldview Holzer > Gardiner right now.  Right...

For the respective roles they play, sure. Gardiner would not make a very good stay-at-home defensive type.

Carlyle certainly thinks that it's coaching that wins or loses hockey games, regardless of the players you have. He stated that because of parity, it comes down to coaching.

Given this mindset, he would prefer a d man that fits his strategy, over a different style of player, even though player B does his particular role better than player A does his.

Sometimes I think you have to just play your best players and adapt a bit, which he doesn't seem to be willing to do in this case.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

 

[rdowdall]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

They only thing I can come up with is that Carlyle has said a couple of times that they need to figure out what they have.  Maybe they want to see what they have in Kostka, Franson, Fraser, and Holzer. 

I just think that they have had enough time to do so, but I am not a professional scout, GM, or coach.

 

[Corn Flake]

Apparently Gardiner's agent started a twitter frenzy with a one word hash tag #FreeJakeGardiner  Can the agent just not talk to Nonis quietly behind the scenes?

Agents shouldn't be allowed on twitter.

RT

 

[Corn Flake]

Gardiner's already said that was his agent's opinion, not his.

So... I shouldn`t set my car on fire and throw all my clothes on to the burning wreckage??

 

[Frank E]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

They only thing I can come up with is that Carlyle has said a couple of times that they need to figure out what they have.  Maybe they want to see what they have in Kostka, Franson, Fraser, and Holzer. 

I just think that they have had enough time to do so, but I am not a professional scout, GM, or coach.

Yeah, I think they're looking forward.

Liles is all contracted up, and is being paid, so for him it's just like an extended break.  I'm sure they discussed it with him.

Komisarek isn't a part of this team's future, and since they're going to be buying him out anyways, not much point in trying to build any pairings up around him.

I don't blame them for what they're doing, they're assessing things and the team has been playing a little bit above their collective heads lately. 

It's like this season is an extended tryout.

EDIT:  And they know what Gardiner's strong points are, they may be trying to better his defense down in the farm...he'll get his turn.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

And Liles came out after a 3-0 win, so it's not like it was a response to a terrible game.

 

[Kessel Run]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

And Liles came out after a 3-0 win, so it's not like it was a response to a terrible game.

Sends a really clear message to those considering signing in Toronto. Show loyalty and sign a long term deal to reasonable contract and get scratched for 10 games straight to two guys with 2 total NHL games collectively coming into the season.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

And Liles came out after a 3-0 win, so it's not like it was a response to a terrible game.

Sends a really clear message to those considering signing in Toronto. Show loyalty and sign a long term deal to reasonable contract and get scratched for 10 games straight to two guys with 2 total NHL games collectively coming into the season.

I really don't think players care that much about that when choosing to sign somewhere.  If they did, wouldn't demoting Finger have already done that? Or wouldn't demoting Redden have done that to the Rangers?

 

[gunnar36]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite
benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

I am not sure what he is trying to prove either. Carlyle seems to be one stubbornly loyal SOB.  To me this is total misuse of your depth when you have 2 Nhl dmen sitting in the press box when you are playing 4 in 6 nights and could really use the fresh legs.  Gunnar, kostka, Fraser and holtzer have all looked slow and tired at times this year and should be given a night off to recharge.

 

[Kessel Run]

Honestly, I'm more perplexed that Liles and Komisarek have been sitting for so long. I mean, these guys are on the roster and Carlyle is still ignoring them. And they weren't even playing all that poorly before this indefinite benching. Carlyle was giving Liles 20+ minutes of ice-time per game, and Komisarek was only on the ice for 1 even-strength goal against in the 4 games he suited up for.

And Liles came out after a 3-0 win, so it's not like it was a response to a terrible game.

Sends a really clear message to those considering signing in Toronto. Show loyalty and sign a long term deal to reasonable contract and get scratched for 10 games straight to two guys with 2 total NHL games collectively coming into the season.

I really don't think players care that much about that when choosing to sign somewhere.  If they did, wouldn't demoting Finger have already done that? Or wouldn't demoting Redden have done that to the Rangers?

Well those players were actually playing bad, and probably deserved it.