Kypreos: PK Subban traded to Nashville for Shea Weber

[Kin]

I don't know if the Subban thing was or wasn't a issue like this, but I have a hard time thinking that they wanted to run a fan favourite, a local philanthropist, and a damn good hockey player out of town because the habs are a bunch of bigots.

I think it's pretty safe to say that if the Habs simply had a problem with Subban because of Race they wouldn't have committed to him the way they did with the contract they gave him. That said, I really think it's hard not to see some of what we've heard coming from that organization of being representative of a bit of a cultural clash and expecting PK to "mature" in a way that doesn't really seem necessary.

So I think the criticism is more of a "get rid of those sideburns" sort of thing that probably has racial undertones which is to say it's not just "they're bigots". 

 

[L K]

I don't know if the Subban thing was or wasn't a issue like this, but I have a hard time thinking that they wanted to run a fan favourite, a local philanthropist, and a damn good hockey player out of town because the habs are a bunch of bigots.

I think it's pretty safe to say that if the Habs simply had a problem with Subban because of Race they wouldn't have committed to him the way they did with the contract they gave him. That said, I really think it's hard not to see some of what we've heard coming from that organization of being representative of a bit of a cultural clash and expecting PK to "mature" in a way that doesn't really seem necessary.

So I think the criticism is more of a "get rid of those sideburns" sort of thing that probably has racial undertones which is to say it's not just "they're bigots".

I think the other side of it is the supposed rumor was that he didn't get along with Plekanec.  Is the 33 year old guy who averages 50 points a year really the one you should be siding with if that had anything to do with lockerroom issues.  I mean if Price had a problem with him, maybe you take that into account, but it seems to me like PK is far and away the best skater on their team.  He should hold more sway, particularly when his personality "issues" have nothing to do with effort on the ice/training.

 

[Kin]

 
I think the other side of it is the supposed rumor was that he didn't get along with Plekanec.  Is the 33 year old guy who averages 50 points a year really the one you should be siding with if that had anything to do with lockerroom issues.  I mean if Price had a problem with him, maybe you take that into account, but it seems to me like PK is far and away the best skater on their team.  He should hold more sway, particularly when his personality "issues" have nothing to do with effort on the ice/training.

Well, or even to the point Frank makes about sometimes this being necessary I don't think we're at a point where we should really give Bergevin the benefit of the doubt that this was a last resort sort of thing where they'd tried everything they could.

Otherwise though, I think we'd need to know more about the situation besides he "maybe didn't get along" with Plekanec or Pacioretty or whoever because to really justify this sort of thing I think you need something a little stronger than that.

 

[herman]

My assumption all along has been that Bergevin and Therrein are doofuses.

 

[bustaheims]

My assumption all along has been that Bergevin and Therrein are doofuses.

I'm pretty sure that's an established fact. ;D

 

[CarltonTheBear]

My assumption all along has been that Bergevin and Therrein are doofuses.

Pretty much this. Even if there were issues with Subban off the ice, they wouldn't have traded him in a deal that made their team worse. I think that the Habs know how good of a defenceman that Subban is, but they also felt probably that Weber was arguably better. That's the only reason they needed to make the trade.

 

[herman]

http://m.thn.com/blog/analytics-hasnt-reached-maturity-in-the-nhl-yet-matt-pfeffer/

Is someone reading our thread?

 

[Tigger]

http://m.thn.com/blog/analytics-hasnt-reached-maturity-in-the-nhl-yet-matt-pfeffer/

Is someone reading our thread?

?There?s nothing wrong with being average in the NHL,? Pfeffer said. ?An average NHLer is worth a heck of a lot and that?s what Shea Weber is.?

Bold.

 

[herman]

http://m.thn.com/blog/analytics-hasnt-reached-maturity-in-the-nhl-yet-matt-pfeffer/

Is someone reading our thread?

?There?s nothing wrong with being average in the NHL,? Pfeffer said. ?An average NHLer is worth a heck of a lot and that?s what Shea Weber is.?

Bold.

He tweeted a retraction shortly after the article was published. Looks like his account has been deleted though.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/shea-weber-average-nhler-p-k-subban-trade-matt-pfeffer-montreal-canadiens-nashville-predators-analytics/

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

http://m.thn.com/blog/analytics-hasnt-reached-maturity-in-the-nhl-yet-matt-pfeffer/

Is someone reading our thread?

?There?s nothing wrong with being average in the NHL,? Pfeffer said. ?An average NHLer is worth a heck of a lot and that?s what Shea Weber is.?

Bold.

He tweeted a retraction shortly after the article was published. Looks like his account has been deleted though.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/shea-weber-average-nhler-p-k-subban-trade-matt-pfeffer-montreal-canadiens-nashville-predators-analytics/

There was actually something posted on twitter (I can't recall which account offhand right now) that was a screenshot of Matt Pfeffer replying to someone's comment on an article and basically saying that what he said to Ken Campbell was that Weber was average in that one specific stat (the 5v5 GF% or whatever it was).  Basically he wasn't trying to say Weber was just an average NHLer overall.

 

[herman]

There was actually something posted on twitter (I can't recall which account offhand right now) that was a screenshot of Matt Pfeffer replying to someone's comment on an article and basically saying that what he said to Ken Campbell was that Weber was average in that one specific stat (the 5v5 GF% or whatever it was).  Basically he wasn't trying to say Weber was just an average NHLer overall.

And while he's not wrong in that regard, it also highlights why MTL felt comfortable not extending Pfeffer too. He didn't have help/do a good job selling management on his analyses.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

There was actually something posted on twitter (I can't recall which account offhand right now) that was a screenshot of Matt Pfeffer replying to someone's comment on an article and basically saying that what he said to Ken Campbell was that Weber was average in that one specific stat (the 5v5 GF% or whatever it was).  Basically he wasn't trying to say Weber was just an average NHLer overall.

And while he's not wrong in that regard, it also highlights why MTL felt comfortable not extending Pfeffer too. He didn't have help/do a good job selling management on his analyses.

I took it to mean that Ken Campbell didn't understand or misrepresented what he was trying to say, which isn't surprising to me.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I took it to mean that Ken Campbell didn't understand or misrepresented what he was trying to say, which isn't surprising to me.

That was my initial thought too. Most fancy stats and such don't love Weber but I haven't seen anyone describe him as an "average" NHL defenceman before. I guessed that maybe he meant he was an "average" first pairing defenceman, which seems more close to how that community feels.

Here's that screenshot:

 

[herman]

http://www.todaysslapshot.com/nichols-notes/friedman-weighs-canadiens-franchise-altering-decision/

?I think the other thing is too is, Marc Bergevin ? and I?ve asked him about this before ? he doesn?t like his defensemen to carry the puck up as much. He thinks if defensemen carry the puck up, the game slows down for your team because the forwards have to wait there. P.K. liked to carry it, although he did try to change his game because they asked him. Weber is a guy who won?t do that as much. They?ll get the puck up. And I do think for the way that Bergevin wants them to play, Weber is a good fit for that.?

Iiiiinnnteresstingggg. Montreal will be even more pass and less carry coming out of the DZone.

 

[Kin]

I took it to mean that Ken Campbell didn't understand or misrepresented what he was trying to say, which isn't surprising to me.

That was my initial thought too. Most fancy stats and such don't love Weber but I haven't seen anyone describe him as an "average" NHL defenceman before. I guessed that maybe he meant he was an "average" first pairing defenceman, which seems more close to how that community feels.

Here's that screenshot:

Over the last three years Ottawa's GF% is 50.1. Erik Karlsson over the same time span is 50% even. Karlsson has finished 1,1,2 in Norris voting in that span.

 

[herman]

Devante Smith-Pelly was also on Cabbie's podcast and spoke about PK Subban.
Said it felt really, really old school at times in Montreal.
DSP on Subban: "I could see that his personality and the coach's personality just didn't really work."
DSP says he had some negative experiences in "old-school" Montreal as well.
DSP on Montreal: "Some things happened and the way I was dealt with when those things happened were maybe not the way I agreed with."

When asked why none of Habs mgmt was at PK's announcement at the hospital, DSP says PK didn't really tell anyone. "None of the players knew"
DSP admits mgmt would've had to know because PK missed practice.
"For mgmt not to be there is kind of maybe everything you need to know."
DSP had a "good feeling" PK would be traded...
"Me being there and seeing how your best player gets treated sometimes, it's like: why?"

? Platinum Seat Ghosts (@3rdPeriodSuits) August 17, 2016