Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 3rd, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[Heroic Shrimp]

Holy crap, I checked out after the 4th Flyer goal at 17:54 and assumed it was a 4-1 final, just found out it wasn't...

 

[Bullfrog]

HS, I only saw the first two periods, then checked the score this morning.  :'(

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Maybe if you two didn't give up on the game the Leafs wouldn't have either.

 

[KW Sluggo]

All that money, all that offensive talent spent on Tavares, Matthews & Nylander and we cannot score more than one goal? I thought that shedding the tyrannical Babcock, trading away our problem defenceman Zaitsev and the return of Hyman were supposed to put this team back on track.

The performance of this team is beneath unacceptable and last night's game is symptomatic, it is not an outlier.

 

[Kin]

When people say that the performance of the team is unacceptable...what do they think accepting it requires? Because if the team is this bad, or worse, for a long stretch of time the only thing actually within your power to do re: accepting it or not is just no longer being a fan.

Which, I mean, if that's what you're saying then kudos. But I've seen the Leafs play much worse and have remained a fan so that doesn't seem like an option for me.

Or is it just a statement that you're going to be angry about it?

 

[azzurri63]

Thank god I missed the 3rd period.
Said it before Babcock needed to go. Mission accomplished.
Next step Dubas needs to make some changes. Change the makeup of this team. Need more toughness and guys that battle both ends of the ice.
The contracts Dubas handed out were a mistake.
Now we?ll see if he can fix it. I held off by saying this and questioned Matthews compete but maybe he needs to go. I?ve said kid has all the tools but not convinced with his compete and work ethic. Paying a guy almost 12 mill and definitely doesn?t bring it most nights. I?m disappointed in him quite honestly.
Change the makeup with this team as I said for 2-3 years now not a team to win in the playoffs.

Go ahead fire away everyone. I know most will but is what it is.

Trading a 22 year old with his talent would be a huge mistake. Let's see what happens now that Keefe has taken over. You can't change a mindset in a week or 2. He's had Babs in his ear for 3+ years. Just because he isn't where you think he should be doesn't mean he won't get there.

I have been boasting this guy since his rookie year.
Said it on here and to friends. Kid with his size and talent can be the second best player in the league if he brought it each and every shift or at least game.
I just don't see it and the money thrown these guys way doesn't help.
I honestly think his game has regressed. I don't know if it was due to the injuries or playing as to not to get injured again I can't say.
Do I want him traded. Hell no. I just want him to take over a game at some point. He has the ability.
If he doesn't want to bring it ala McDavid then what's wrong with possibly exploring shipping him off?
You don't think you could get a boatload for him? Getting rid of him doesn't necessarily mean you're team is going to be weaker. Might be losing some scoring but you may be improving the team overall.
It ain't going to happen but if the team struggles continue for this year and again next it's definitely something Dubas has to look into and I'm not just talking Auston. Might be Mitch instead.

 

[Kin]

I watched both Oilers games this weekend and McDavid didn't "dominate" either game or tear the ice up on every shift. He played well, and scored some points, but that's it. That's what Matthews does.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Thank god I missed the 3rd period.
Said it before Babcock needed to go. Mission accomplished.
Next step Dubas needs to make some changes. Change the makeup of this team. Need more toughness and guys that battle both ends of the ice.
The contracts Dubas handed out were a mistake.
Now we?ll see if he can fix it. I held off by saying this and questioned Matthews compete but maybe he needs to go. I?ve said kid has all the tools but not convinced with his compete and work ethic. Paying a guy almost 12 mill and definitely doesn?t bring it most nights. I?m disappointed in him quite honestly.
Change the makeup with this team as I said for 2-3 years now not a team to win in the playoffs.

Go ahead fire away everyone. I know most will but is what it is.

Trading a 22 year old with his talent would be a huge mistake. Let's see what happens now that Keefe has taken over. You can't change a mindset in a week or 2. He's had Babs in his ear for 3+ years. Just because he isn't where you think he should be doesn't mean he won't get there.

I have been boasting this guy since his rookie year.
Said it on here and to friends. Kid with his size and talent can be the second best player in the league if he brought it each and every shift or at least game.
I just don't see it and the money thrown these guys way doesn't help.
I honestly think his game has regressed. I don't know if it was due to the injuries or playing as to not to get injured again I can't say.
Do I want him traded. Hell no. I just want him to take over a game at some point. He has the ability.
If he doesn't want to bring it ala McDavid then what's wrong with possibly exploring shipping him off?
You don't think you could get a boatload for him? Getting rid of him doesn't necessarily mean you're team is going to be weaker. Might be losing some scoring but you may be improving the team overall.
It ain't going to happen but if the team struggles continue for this year and again next it's definitely something Dubas has to look into and I'm not just talking Auston. Might be Mitch instead.

I hear you. I would have traded Mitch for Seth Jones. That guy is a beast.

 

[azzurri63]

I watched both Oilers games this weekend and McDavid didn't "dominate" either game or tear the ice up on every shift. He played well, and scored some points, but that's it. That's what Matthews does.

U comparing him to McDavid? I don't think he's close to McDavid's level. I used him as he's the best player in the league and a centre.
I honestly think Auston can get to #2 but last 10 games he has 3 goals 3 assists and is a -5 I believe. Been invisible some nights and in those 10 games was held pointless in half of them.
I can live with games without a point but when you're not doing much else and struggling defensively that's a concern for a player of his calibre and salary.
He has a lot of work to do. Unfortunately in todays game and idiotic media the kid plays well for a couple shifts, scores a goal here or there and everything is fine.
Sorry that don't cut it for me.

 

[Kin]

U comparing him to McDavid?

No, you compared him to McDavid. Or, rather, some nonsense imaginary version of McDavid you've cooked up in your head. What I did is say that the version of McDavid you're comparing him to doesn't exist.

Matthews is on pace for 45 goals and 88 points. Slow 10 games included. That's why people are "fine" with him. 

 

[azzurri63]

U comparing him to McDavid?

No, you compared him to McDavid. Or, rather, some nonsense imaginary version of McDavid you've cooked up in your head. What I did is say that the version of McDavid you're comparing him to doesn't exist.

Matthews is on pace for 45 goals and 88 points. Slow 10 games included. That's why people are "fine" with him.

Some of you think people are fine with him. Did you just see the segment on That's Hockey?
His compete and defensive work is less than desirable. They are questioning it.
I compared him to McDavid as I honestly think he can be the 2nd best player and centerman in this league.
His salary is the highest in the league and cap hit is 3rd in the league.
Sorry but he needs to be better.

 

[Kin]

I compared him to McDavid as I honestly think he can be the 2nd best player and centerman in this league.

Shockingly, I'm more interested in judging him by what he's done on the ice than I am some arbitrary standard you've cooked up for him.

 

[azzurri63]

I compared him to McDavid as I honestly think he can be the 2nd best player and centerman in this league.

Shockingly, I'm more interested in judging him by what he's done on the ice than I am some arbitrary standard you've cooked up for him.

And you think his play is fine? PPG player in this day and age making $15 million this year and a cap hit of almost $12 million is fine. Plus I won't even get into the miscues and lapses defensively that are costing the team. Again tonight giveaway on the 3rd goal and moments later gives it away again and lucky it didn't end up in the net. Not that it would've mattered but get with it. He's been brutal. I thought things might change when they let Egocock go but actually his play has gotten worse.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I compared him to McDavid as I honestly think he can be the 2nd best player and centerman in this league.

Shockingly, I'm more interested in judging him by what he's done on the ice than I am some arbitrary standard you've cooked up for him.

And you think his play is fine? PPG player in this day and age making $15 million this year and a cap hit of almost $12 million is fine. Plus I won't even get into the miscues and lapses defensively that are costing the team. Again tonight giveaway on the 3rd goal and moments later gives it away again and lucky it didn't end up in the net. Not that it would've mattered but get with it. He's been brutal. I thought things might change when they let Egocock go but actually his play has gotten worse.

Ah no, Rielly gave the puck away on the third goal. Weak pass or not it was on his stick.

 

[azzurri63]

I compared him to McDavid as I honestly think he can be the 2nd best player and centerman in this league.

Shockingly, I'm more interested in judging him by what he's done on the ice than I am some arbitrary standard you've cooked up for him.

And you think his play is fine? PPG player in this day and age making $15 million this year and a cap hit of almost $12 million is fine. Plus I won't even get into the miscues and lapses defensively that are costing the team. Again tonight giveaway on the 3rd goal and moments later gives it away again and lucky it didn't end up in the net. Not that it would've mattered but get with it. He's been brutal. I thought things might change when they let Egocock go but actually his play has gotten worse.

Ah no, Rielly gave the puck away on the third goal. Weak pass or not it was on his stick.
[/


Honestly watch the replay again. Matthews had time no reason even to throw it back. Pass was weak and Av player was right on Reilly when puck got to him. Didn?t have much time and I?m not backing Reilly because his play has sucked as well. All Matthews had to do was turn around and set something up.

 

[Kin]

And you think his play is fine? PPG player in this day and age making $15 million this year and a cap hit of almost $12 million is fine.

Well, first of all, constantly bringing up his first year's salary owing to the way his contract was structured is transparently ridiculous. He's not under any more or less pressure to perform because he got money up front for tax purposes.

Secondly, taking a momentary snapshot of a guy during a rough stretch is not a fair evaluation of what he's doing. He hasn't been great the last 10 games. He's a better player than he's been of late and we saw that in the early part of the year.

This is just the same old garbage we've always seen with top tier players on this team. Every time Sundin had a bad stretch of games people would talk about his lack of heart and hustle and how much better the team was with Gilmour and so on. It's not new or interesting or based in anything other than a need from loudmouths to whine and moan about everything.

McDavid, by the way, had no points and was a -2 as his team got worked over by the Senators last night.

 

[herman]

I think one of the reasons people lust after the stars on other teams is that they only catch the highlights and those players feature prominently largely in positive light visually and in commentary.

On the home team, our stars are watched regularly with invested expectations regularly enough that their strengths are taken for granted and flaws are magnified. Once that little seed of disappointment germinates, confirmation bias fuels the rest.

The appearance of trying doesn't necessarily equate to effective.

 

[Guilt Trip]

And you think his play is fine? PPG player in this day and age making $15 million this year and a cap hit of almost $12 million is fine.

Well, first of all, constantly bringing up his first year's salary owing to the way his contract was structured is transparently ridiculous. He's not under any more or less pressure to perform because he got money up front for tax purposes.

Secondly, taking a momentary snapshot of a guy during a rough stretch is not a fair evaluation of what he's doing. He hasn't been great the last 10 games. He's a better player than he's been of late and we saw that in the early part of the year.

This is just the same old garbage we've always seen with top tier players on this team. Every time Sundin had a bad stretch of games people would talk about his lack of heart and hustle and how much better the team was with Gilmour and so on. It's not new or interesting or based in anything other than a need from loudmouths to whine and moan about everything.

McDavid, by the way, had no points and was a -2 as his team got worked over by the Senators last night.

Not always in agreement with Nik but he's bang on here.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think one of the reasons people lust after the stars on other teams is that they only catch the highlights and those players feature prominently largely in positive light visually and in commentary.

On the home team, our stars are watched regularly with invested expectations regularly enough that their strengths are taken for granted and flaws are magnified. Once that little seed of disappointment germinates, confirmation bias fuels the rest.

The appearance of trying doesn't necessarily equate to effective.

Thanks herman. I think this is a good observation.

 

[Goaliedave31]

I think one of the reasons people lust after the stars on other teams is that they only catch the highlights and those players feature prominently largely in positive light visually and in commentary.

On the home team, our stars are watched regularly with invested expectations regularly enough that their strengths are taken for granted and flaws are magnified. Once that little seed of disappointment germinates, confirmation bias fuels the rest.

The appearance of trying doesn't necessarily equate to effective.

When we are talking about whether or not our stars are as good as or better than other teams stars, one thing that is important to keep in mind is that throughout the team's history, no matter how successful or not the team has been, our stars have never been quite as good as theirs, with a few exceptions. Since 1937-38, when Gord Drillon won the league scoring championship, no Leaf has won it. Sittler and Gilmour came close, but that's it. I believe that for long time fans, or those well aware of the team's past, this is a constant thorn in the side. Here we are, in 2019, and our best are pretty good, but not in the way McDavid, Draisaitl, McKinnon, Ovechkin, and a select few others are. Until a Leaf dominates the league in the way that these players do, we will never be satisfied with our best guys just being 'pretty good".