Leafs @ Hurricanes - Dec. 18th, 7:00pm - TSN4, TSN 1050

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

So the Leafs had 42% possession tonight, pretty much where they have been for the past little while.

Carlyle has been telling anyone who would listen that they've not been playing the way they want to recently.

Obviously they have been working on improving these things in their game. Either the players are not capable or willing to change their game and the coach is either incapable of getting buy in for hear ideas or is incapable of coaching the correct way to play.

No matter how you view it and no matter how seduced people have been by the accumulation of points, something has to give with either the roster or the coach, continuing to do nothing and accepting this deeply flawed performance from the team is a recipe for nothing but failure.

 

[Peter D.]

that's our Leafs. Beat Ottawa. Beat Pittsburgh. Beat Dallas. Beat Los Angeles.


lose to Carolina.

And ANA.

This is a personal perspective, but the optics of this is why I still am skeptical about the end game with this team. It's easier to live with a stinker against an Anaheim or L.A. if they take care of business of these lesser teams. We've been burned far too often for the better part of the last decade that you can't help but wonder if this is just one of those hot streaks that will look like a blip in the grand scheme of things when all 82 games have been played.

Anyways, they can shut me up by handing it to Philly on Saturday.

 

[bustaheims]

no I am not, Hall is a huge part of edmonton`s problem. we have enough here. dont need anymore

Yzerman was considered to be a huge part of the problem in Detroit until they started winning. In fact, he was almost traded to Ottawa because of it. Just because a player is a big part of an unsuccessful team doesn't mean that he's creating any problems.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Pretty much the whole team was crap, don't know if I could think of one player who played well.  Some played alright, a bunch played poorly.  Seemed like the entire team had trouble making a pass, they didn't get a few bounces, still had chances to tie it but made bad decisions (Franson and then Winnik could have cleared it on the PK but didn't).

Don't know what else to say, was a team-wide poor performance.

 

[Andy007]

Lupul, gardiner, Reimer for Hall

I would rather not.

Are you kidding?


You're kidding.


You must be kidding.

no I am not, Hall is a huge part of edmonton`s problem. we have enough here. dont need anymore

I'd love to hear why you think so. Tell me why Hall is such a huge problem. Is this simply based on a random Dreger article that uses literally zero actual references? I can't wait to hear about all of the factual evidence that shows why Hall, and not the garbage management of Edmonton, is responsible for so much of the team's plight.

 

[freer]

Lupul, gardiner, Reimer for Hall

I would rather not.

Are you kidding?


You're kidding.


You must be kidding.

no I am not, Hall is a huge part of edmonton`s problem. we have enough here. dont need anymore

I'd love to hear why you think so. Tell me why Hall is such a huge problem. Is this simply based on a random Dreger article that uses literally zero actual references? I can't wait to hear about all of the factual evidence that shows why Hall, and not the garbage management of Edmonton, is responsible for so much of the team's plight.

Why? Because just about every sport caster who has covered the Edmonton Oiler's failure this season has stated that he is a huge part of the problem. Also I don't think he is worth what was stated earlier in the thread

 

[Courtnall]

Lupul, gardiner, Reimer for Hall

I would rather not.

Lupul is 31 and only has 154 more career points then young Hall. 
Gardiner isn't bringing in any dimension that other Leafs don't already possess.
Reimer is the back-up goalie that I think Toronto is afraid of over-exposing his glass head.
If they threw Scrivens in the deal, it would still leave Edmonton picking up over $3 million
in salary.  No way they make that dead.

You could easily tweet the deal. They get there starter. They get a young defenceman that can play right away and could benefit with a change of scenery and his college partner. They also get much needed leadership and a top six, potential first line winger.

 

[Bullfrog]

Sell it however you want, Hall is one of the best left wingers in the game and is a perennial ppg player at only 23 years old. He also plays with an edge like Kadri, though is more undisciplined.

I think a change of scenery for Hall will be just as beneficial as it was for Seguin.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

So the Leafs had 42% possession tonight, pretty much where they have been for the past little while.

Carlyle has been telling anyone who would listen that they've not been playing the way they want to recently.

Obviously they have been working on improving these things in their game. Either the players are not capable or willing to change their game and the coach is either incapable of getting buy in for hear ideas or is incapable of coaching the correct way to play.

No matter how you view it and no matter how seduced people have been by the accumulation of points, something has to give with either the roster or the coach, continuing to do nothing and accepting this deeply flawed performance from the team is a recipe for nothing but failure.

Sorry to be a douche and quote myself, but this section of Jonas Siegel's recap had me really shaking my head and pointing the finger of blame in Carlyle's direction.

3. Possession II
Toronto's best line previously at sustaining offensive zone pressure had been that of Nazem Kadri, Mike Santorelli and Daniel Winnik ? all three hovering near 50 per cent on the year.
Why?
"They keep it simple," Carlyle said. "If there's not an opportunity to advance the puck on a three-on-two or two-on-one or odd-man rush they put the puck in and they skate off it. With today's rules you can't hold up in the neutral ice anymore so there should not be any reason to not get the puck in deep if the situation presents itself. That's the issue, [it's] more about reading when to do it and when not to do it."

So Randy Carlyle is of the opinion, that winning in the NHL involves dumping the puck in more often than not, this is also something the players have been parroting for over a month now too.

It is absolutely not the most efficient use of possession, this coach and these players literally said as much towards the start of this year when the talk of analytics was rife.

They waxed lyrical about seeing statistical analysis showing that if you enter the o-zone with puck possession, you scored a lot more and the puck wound up in your net a lot less than if you just dumped the puck in.

To be clear, this is correct.

Now they've done a complete 180 and all these problems that have plagued the team for years are creeping back in.

How are management not all over this clown?

Dubas?

The new analytics department?

Are they giving him enough rope to hang himself?

I'm really at a loss for words.

 

[Damian]

I dont care who came off the IR or whatever, why would you mess with the streak and a very successful lineup... that, I will never understand.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

So the Leafs had 42% possession tonight, pretty much where they have been for the past little while.

Carlyle has been telling anyone who would listen that they've not been playing the way they want to recently.

Obviously they have been working on improving these things in their game. Either the players are not capable or willing to change their game and the coach is either incapable of getting buy in for hear ideas or is incapable of coaching the correct way to play.

No matter how you view it and no matter how seduced people have been by the accumulation of points, something has to give with either the roster or the coach, continuing to do nothing and accepting this deeply flawed performance from the team is a recipe for nothing but failure.

Sorry to be a douche and quote myself, but this section of Jonas Siegel's recap had me really shaking my head and pointing the finger of blame in Carlyle's direction.

3. Possession II
Toronto's best line previously at sustaining offensive zone pressure had been that of Nazem Kadri, Mike Santorelli and Daniel Winnik ? all three hovering near 50 per cent on the year.
Why?
"They keep it simple," Carlyle said. "If there's not an opportunity to advance the puck on a three-on-two or two-on-one or odd-man rush they put the puck in and they skate off it. With today's rules you can't hold up in the neutral ice anymore so there should not be any reason to not get the puck in deep if the situation presents itself. That's the issue, [it's] more about reading when to do it and when not to do it."

So Randy Carlyle is of the opinion, that winning in the NHL involves dumping the puck in more often than not, this is also something the players have been parroting for over a month now too.

It is absolutely not the most efficient use of possession, this coach and these players literally said as much towards the start of this year when the talk of analytics was rife.

They waxed lyrical about seeing statistical analysis showing that if you enter the o-zone with puck possession, you scored a lot more and the puck wound up in your net a lot less than if you just dumped the puck in.

To be clear, this is correct.

Now they've done a complete 180 and all these problems that have plagued the team for years are creeping back in.

How are management not all over this clown?

Dubas?

The new analytics department?

Are they giving him enough rope to hang himself?

I'm really at a loss for words.

I'm pretty sure that line doesn't do that with any more regularity than other lines and, if anything, they try to hold onto the puck longer and make a play (Kadri does for sure).

Dubas has been on record stating that they speak with the coaching staff daily.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

I'm pretty sure that line doesn't do that with any more regularity than other lines and, if anything, they try to hold onto the puck longer and make a play (Kadri does for sure).

Dubas has been on record stating that they speak with the coaching staff daily.

That's even more troubling then, no?

That means the coach is incapable of recognizing what's happening on the ice.

It also means he's not listening during those daily chats with management, who cannot be advocating for a chip and chase game, if he's still preaching essentially the opposite of a puck possession game.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm pretty sure that line doesn't do that with any more regularity than other lines and, if anything, they try to hold onto the puck longer and make a play (Kadri does for sure).

Dubas has been on record stating that they speak with the coaching staff daily.

That's even more troubling then, no?

That means the coach is incapable of recognizing what's happening on the ice.

It also means he's not listening during those daily chats with management, who cannot be advocating for a chip and chase game, if he's still preaching essentially the opposite of a puck possession game.

Well one only has to look at the possession issues Anaheim had when he was fired and how it's continued for 3 seasons here to know that Carlyle doesn't really know how to fix it, at least not without Pronger and Niedermayer returning to the lineup as their 30 year old selves.

 

[losveratos]

Sell it however you want, Hall is one of the best left wingers in the game and is a perennial ppg player at only 23 years old. He also plays with an edge like Kadri, though is more undisciplined.

I think a change of scenery for Hall will be just as beneficial as it was for Seguin.

I would just like to point out that perennial means more than 2 years.

 

[Kin]

Sell it however you want, Hall is one of the best left wingers in the game and is a perennial ppg player at only 23 years old. He also plays with an edge like Kadri, though is more undisciplined.

I think a change of scenery for Hall will be just as beneficial as it was for Seguin.

I would just like to point out that perennial means more than 2 years.

Eh, not really.

 

[bustaheims]

I would just like to point out that perennial means more than 2 years.

Only if you're talking about plants.

 

[herman]

So the Leafs had 42% possession tonight, pretty much where they have been for the past little while.

Carlyle has been telling anyone who would listen that they've not been playing the way they want to recently.

Obviously they have been working on improving these things in their game. Either the players are not capable or willing to change their game and the coach is either incapable of getting buy in for hear ideas or is incapable of coaching the correct way to play.

No matter how you view it and no matter how seduced people have been by the accumulation of points, something has to give with either the roster or the coach, continuing to do nothing and accepting this deeply flawed performance from the team is a recipe for nothing but failure.

Sorry to be a douche and quote myself, but this section of Jonas Siegel's recap had me really shaking my head and pointing the finger of blame in Carlyle's direction.

3. Possession II
Toronto's best line previously at sustaining offensive zone pressure had been that of Nazem Kadri, Mike Santorelli and Daniel Winnik ? all three hovering near 50 per cent on the year.
Why?
"They keep it simple," Carlyle said. "If there's not an opportunity to advance the puck on a three-on-two or two-on-one or odd-man rush they put the puck in and they skate off it. With today's rules you can't hold up in the neutral ice anymore so there should not be any reason to not get the puck in deep if the situation presents itself. That's the issue, [it's] more about reading when to do it and when not to do it."

So Randy Carlyle is of the opinion, that winning in the NHL involves dumping the puck in more often than not, this is also something the players have been parroting for over a month now too.

It is absolutely not the most efficient use of possession, this coach and these players literally said as much towards the start of this year when the talk of analytics was rife.

They waxed lyrical about seeing statistical analysis showing that if you enter the o-zone with puck possession, you scored a lot more and the puck wound up in your net a lot less than if you just dumped the puck in.

To be clear, this is correct.

Now they've done a complete 180 and all these problems that have plagued the team for years are creeping back in.

How are management not all over this clown?

Dubas?

The new analytics department?

Are they giving him enough rope to hang himself?

I'm really at a loss for words.

I'm pretty sure that line doesn't do that with any more regularity than other lines and, if anything, they try to hold onto the puck longer and make a play (Kadri does for sure).

Dubas has been on record stating that they speak with the coaching staff daily.

I usually see the Kadri line peel back from the blue line and reset for another intrusion if they don't have an opening. They're also good at possession because they can actually stick handle under pressure and generally triangle up pretty tightly. Our other lines tend to try wall to wall passes.

 

[Bullfrog]

Sell it however you want, Hall is one of the best left wingers in the game and is a perennial ppg player at only 23 years old. He also plays with an edge like Kadri, though is more undisciplined.

I think a change of scenery for Hall will be just as beneficial as it was for Seguin.

I would just like to point out that perennial means more than 2 years.

Grammar dispute aside, I do recognize your point that he's only produced at a point-per-game in two seasons. But does anyone really dispute that he will be a consistent ppg threat?

 

[Highlander]

time to trade Polak, Holzer is good enough to take over, clear some cap space for us

 

[freer]

time to trade Polak, Holzer is good enough to take over, clear some cap space for us

How about Gardiner because he is garbage.