Leafs @ Islanders - Feb. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590

[Chev-boyar-sky]

The principal idea is not foreign.  That being that Tavares gets a bona fide established winger to play with right now, while we get building blocks that are a few years away (whomever they are).  You don't have to agree, but you see the principal of the proposal happen a few times in the past.  I'm just saying...why not the Leafs and the Islanders?

I honestly can not think of a trade like that happening during the cap era. If you're the Islanders you could take that 8 million a year and sign the best free agent possible and keep the kids.

And I think that, you know, what we have seen in the past is teams in the Islanders position try to add that sort of complimentary piece by low cost acquisitions or free agent signings. Chicago added Hossa as a UFA, LA added Jeff Carter on the cheap, Pittsburgh went out and signed most of their guys. None of those teams traded away multiple high draft picks.

Pittsburgh didn't sign any of Neal, Hornqvist or Perron who are arguably the most talented wingers they've had over the last 5-6 years.

Jeff Carter was acquired on the cheap (well relatively speaking anyways), but he's not as good as Kessel. He wasn't far removed from Evander Kane-like circumstances himself at the time.

Hossa was signed 6 years ago so it's a bit of a reach to say there are guys of his calibre available in todays NHL (he was a PPG player at the time). IIRC he also signed a bit of a sketchy cap friendly deal.

Here are the biggest forward names of the last couple off-seasons

2011 there was Richards
2012 there was Parise
2013 there were Alfredsson, Iginla and Clarkson (why god?)
2014 there were Stastny and Vanek

Parise and Vanek were reportedly already signing with MIN before the UFA season started.

Not all of those players are wingers for one and not all of those players are or were as productive as Kessel in those years that they signed.

Kessel love him or hate him has been one of the best goal scorers in the league the last few years. He's still in his prime.

Those kind of players don't become available often and when they do (see the 1st, 2011 1st in Armia and 2nd in Lemieux that were moved for Kane who's been an injured 50pt player on an overpriced deal so far) they are moved for value. So if they want a player of that calibre they have to pay in trade, or hope that the 1 guy per year (if that) decides to choose their team/offer.

When was the last time a player of Kessel's calibre (outside of Parise) reached the open market and signed an $8M deal? If it doesn't happen then it's hard to say "they could just as easily sign a guy for $8M in FA". It's like the Leafs waiting for the #1C in FA, it just doesn't happen.

Kessel for Strome and Reinhart isn't that far fetched at all IMO though NYI may not be willing to add salary to the cap/payroll.

 

[freer]

I predict Clarkson falls down twice, takes 1 dumb penalty and gets 2 pts.

 

[Kin]

Pittsburgh didn't sign any of Neal, Hornqvist or Perron who are arguably the most talented wingers they've had over the last 5-6 years.

Right. And none of those guys are star players either. They're decent complimentary pieces that didn't cost multiple top 5 picks. Those are the kinds of players teams like the Islanders trade for.

When was the last time a player of Kessel's calibre (outside of Parise) reached the open market and signed an $8M deal? If it doesn't happen then it's hard to say "they could just as easily sign a guy for $8M in FA". It's like the Leafs waiting for the #1C in FA, it just doesn't happen.

Except I didn't say they could sign a player as good as Kessel. I said that they could sign a free agent and keep the kids and be better off. Kessel's a great player but I'd rather have Strome, Reinhart and, say, Iginla than Kessel in the long term. Regardless, aside from you misrepresenting the cost of the Kane deal(those picks/prospects were for both Kane and Bogosian), you're still not talking about teams trading multiple top five picks. You're talking about teams trading mid-to-late first round assets for complimentary players. That's what history tells us a team like the Islanders will want to do. That's what they tried to do with Vanek.

Teams don't stock up on top 5 picks and trade them away en masse. It just doesn't happen.

 

[pmrules]

Pittsburgh didn't sign any of Neal, Hornqvist or Perron who are arguably the most talented wingers they've had over the last 5-6 years.

Right. And none of those guys are star players either. They're decent complimentary pieces that didn't cost multiple top 5 picks. Those are the kinds of players teams like the Islanders trade for.

When was the last time a player of Kessel's calibre (outside of Parise) reached the open market and signed an $8M deal? If it doesn't happen then it's hard to say "they could just as easily sign a guy for $8M in FA". It's like the Leafs waiting for the #1C in FA, it just doesn't happen.

Except I didn't say they could sign a player as good as Kessel. I said that they could sign a free agent and keep the kids and be better off. Kessel's a great player but I'd rather have Strome, Reinhart and, say, Iginla than Kessel in the long term. Regardless, aside from you misrepresenting the cost of the Kane deal(those picks/prospects were for both Kane and Bogosian), you're still not talking about teams trading multiple top five picks. You're talking about teams trading mid-to-late first round assets for complimentary players. That's what history tells us a team like the Islanders will want to do. That's what they tried to do with Vanek.

Teams don't stock up on top 5 picks and trade them away en masse. It just doesn't happen.

Just to be clear i'd be fine if it was one of the top 5's and another prospect.  I just threw out Strome/Reinhart as a wish/hope/want.  If it ends up being a Strome & Ho Sang or something else, I wouldn't be fussed - not necessarily 2 of their top 5's.

That being said, Isles have a lot of top 5 picks...and even a few more top 10's.  There is a lot in the cupboard for them.

 

[Kin]

Just to be clear i'd be fine if it was one of the top 5's and another prospect.  I just threw out Strome/Reinhart as a wish/hope/want.  If it ends up being a Strome & Ho Sang or something else, I wouldn't be fussed - not necessarily 2 of their top 5's.

That being said, Isles have a lot of top 5 picks...and even a few more top 10's.  There is a lot in the cupboard for them.

Hey, if it's just about who I'd want for Kessel then the sky's the limit. I just don't think the Islanders are the ones who would be in on it.

The trade I'd point to is the Phaneuf deal. There was a young-ish, very highly regarded but incomplete player with a sizable contract being dealt and Calgary got, you know, 4 quarters for a dollar. The Leafs didn't throw in any of their top young prospects(not that they had any but still) and Calgary fans, for the most part, were not happy. I think if you'd go back and look at the instances where really good players got traded...for the most part the teams dealing them didn't end up doing terrifically because the thing that sort of ties all of those instances together is that a player of Kessel's skill isn't going to be on the market unless the team is a motivated seller.

 

[L K]

It hurts to say it, but he's been better than any of our GMs since Quinn, and maybe including him and before.

I don't think he's a genius or anything he just had a good plan, a little luck and stuck with it. He hasn't been afraid to do weird things(draft 7 defensemen in a year) or take risks. I mean, people buried him for the Vanek deal but right now not having what looks like it will be a pick in the 20-30 range isn't really the worst thing in the world.

The benefit of having an ownership that finally goes hands-off and lets the GM do his thing.  I do wonder where the Leafs would be if they didn't poke and prod with JFJ to continue running with an aging core.

 

[Leaflifer]

Ya know, it IS a good time to be a Leaf fan. Lots to talk about.

Looking for a good display of tankage tonight.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Pretty ugly: http://theleafsnation.com/2015/2/12/a-look-at-joffrey-lupul-s-injury-history

 

[CarltonTheBear]

van Riemsdyk-Bozak-Panik
Winnik-Kadri-Santorelli
Komarov-Holland-Kessel
Booth-Smith-Clarkson

Would have liked to see Komarov and Booth swapped as Booth has been better in the past week or two, maybe even longer as Komarov hasn't done much since returning. Would create a 4th line whose sole purpose is to throw a hit too.

 

[caver]

Agreed CTB..and Booth has thrown a few hits lately as well as attack.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

lolololololol

 

[bustaheims]

Tank on!

Franson lowering his trade value. Doesn't want to play anywhere else.

 

[ZBBM]

I feel bad for you, Peter Horachek.

Franson value plunging.

 

[Arn]

lol

This tanking is something else

 

[CarltonTheBear]

What 8-letter word did TSN blank out there?

 

[Arn]

If we're going into full scale rebuild mode I'd trade Bernier too....

Bring up Bibeau and Gibson on an alternating basis if we can do that? Or even Sparks all the way from the ECHL to keep Bibeau and Gibson safe

 

[ZBBM]

What 8-letter word did TSN blank out there?

goshdarn

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Great start!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

lololololololololololololol

 

[bustaheims]

Supertank!

Seriously, though, it would be nice if Bernier could make a save tonight.