Special teams has been the achillies heel of this team so far this season. The powerplay has been anything but dangerous....well it has often been dangerous for giving up scoring chances. The players seem to be lost on the PP, and with the high end talent they have...they should be at least finding ways to throw a few shots toward the net you would think?
Leafs @ Islanders - Nov. 13th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
Bender said:
If they are going to fix it from within, then the guys they have need to change a bit. Matthews and Tavares have to take games over and dictate what happens. It looks like they are taking what the other teams offers them rather than just going out there and forcing the issue. I think they can do it. Last year there was a game against Detroit where it just look like Tavares refused to lose that game. They need that mentality now. They need the big four to cover up the weaknesses throughout the rest of the team.
I'm going to play Devils advocate here. As much as I hate missing the playoffs missing the playoffs but having valuable pieces on your roster is a lot different than having literally no talent and are the 2015 Leafs team. Tampa missed the year Stamkos was injured. Boston missed 2yrs straight. St. Louis was out the year before (and were last in the league at New Year's last year).Significantly Insignificant said:
Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward. But right now I don't think that's whats happening and it's been very frustrating. But I don't think one year.out of the playoffs means another 50 years of garbage.
Bender said:
Where I think that is problematic is the lack of a pick in the first round this year if they fall out of the top ten. Also it depends on how the team handles it. If they become complacent and just accept it then that could be a problem. It seems that would lead the Leafs to turning in to Dallas north.
Although the score didn't reflect this, we dominated the first and second period. We have the skill to be a top team, but we consistently perform poorly when it comes to special teams (PP & PK). The system isn't working, and that system is designed by the coaching staff. The players are just as frustrated as we are.
There are many teams performing better with less talent. This isn't a team that's "missing" anything in terms of player resources. The issue is poor asset (player) allocation, and that falls squarely on the coaches.
Dubas has made some great acquisitions in the off season, with limited cap space, but it doesn't seem that Babcock is interested in using those assets where they should be used. There is a clear disconnect between Dubas and Babcock. Several people already mentioned a few of these poor decisions:
- Why is Barrie not on the PP?
- Petan can't make the 4th line on a regular basis, but is on the second PP unit.
- Always playing the backup on back to back nights.
- Gauthier being on PK.
...the list goes on.
The players need a fresh start under new coaching staff, while there is still time to secure a playoff position. We have some of the best players in the league, and at this rate we may not qualify for the playoffs.
There are many teams performing better with less talent. This isn't a team that's "missing" anything in terms of player resources. The issue is poor asset (player) allocation, and that falls squarely on the coaches.
Dubas has made some great acquisitions in the off season, with limited cap space, but it doesn't seem that Babcock is interested in using those assets where they should be used. There is a clear disconnect between Dubas and Babcock. Several people already mentioned a few of these poor decisions:
- Why is Barrie not on the PP?
- Petan can't make the 4th line on a regular basis, but is on the second PP unit.
- Always playing the backup on back to back nights.
- Gauthier being on PK.
...the list goes on.
The players need a fresh start under new coaching staff, while there is still time to secure a playoff position. We have some of the best players in the league, and at this rate we may not qualify for the playoffs.
hockeyfan1
New member
Chris said:
6) Consistency. They could take a page from the Raptors, who take a never quit approach.
Not saying the team lags but a little continuity of consistency (regardless of injuries) would go a long way to building up both confidence & positivity.
They got back to back games coming up Friday (@ Boston) and Saturday (@ home vs Pittsburgh), and then have a few days off before they play again on Tuesday. I'm going to make the prediction; if they don't perform well in those two games, Babs will get fired Sunday morning, giving the leafs a few days to figure out coaching before the next leg.
Guilt Trip
Active member
That's why I never had a problem with Polak. I didn't like the minutes Babs was giving him because I thought it was too many at times but he was plenty mean.Chris said:
Sunbro said:
Welcome aboard Sunbro!
herman
Well-known member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Good summer considering a ridiculous situation that was not of his direct doing. Not perfect, but who was actually going to be able to sign Marner for 9M or less?
Dubas is process driven and believes in iterative progress. I think many frustrations expressed here are not wrong but a bit too focused on the now. This is not the finished product and I see a lot of great pieces and the right process in play.
What?s not working right now, to my eye, is that the players are adjusting. Is it a surprise that we are struggling exactly where coaching is the newest? Success is a terrible teacher and the Leafs have overperformed at times their true level. At the same time we?ve definitely seen glimpses of what they can accomplish when it all starts to click.
We are trying stuff this year. Inevitably stuff won?t work until it is either abandoned or it starts to click. It?s a team sport; players of different levels take time to work thing out. Having talent in copious amounts is a blessing but also something that needs to be curated. When all your top guys, save for one, was a top player on their previous team who works very hard on his game, but generally hasn?t had to work that hard on the parts of the game without the puck, then of course things will be porous. Marleau, Tavares, is the template.
ZBBM
Active member
Sunbro said:
Welcome to the site.
However, I can't agree with the bolded parts. Chris's list above is a pretty good summary of what they are missing. Even if you set aside the disappearance of Lines 3 & 4 and the disastrous choice of backup G, I don't see how it's possible to look at this defense and say, nope, everything's good, they just need to be utilized better.
The fact is, and has been since I don't know when, we don't have enough defensemen who can actually play competent defense. Ceci was the wrong acquisition (yep, would rather have kept Zaitsev, who as you may remember actually acquitted himself pretty well against Boston in the playoffs), Barrie was the wrong acquisition even if he were playing close to his Colorado self. Spezza was the wrong acquisition.
I do agree that before giving up on Barrie, who has simply been awful, they may as well try him on PP1.
I'm also here to say again (blah blah blah) that it was a mistake sending Sandin down. I seriously think they need to get rid of Ceci by whatever means possible and bring him back up. Put him on the PK and let him learn. Can't be worse than relying on Rielly (who can't kill penalties sheesh) and Ceci.
ZBBM
Active member
herman said:
Please critique my critique of Dubas's overall lineup plan: no physicality anywhere, even in the bottom 6. My basic rationale is this: the high flyers on the top 2 lines are getting no space to do their stuff, even under the controlled Babcock style they are trying to play, because the other team's defenders, especially the d-men, know they will pay no price whatsoever during a game. If they were getting hit more, they'd give up the puck more, there'd be more chaos, they'd have to have their heads on a swivel, etc. ? all of which sews havoc and disrupts a team's defensive plans. (Look at what it does to us.) More havoc on their side, more room on our side, and then the top 2 lines could start killing the other team.
Am I wrong?
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
First it was Gardiner, then it was Zaitsev, and now it's Ceci and Barrie. Is the real issue Ceci and Barrie lack of ability, or the system they are being forced to play? The challenge is Babcock seems really stuck in his ways, and despite persistent issues, he doesn't adapt. The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.
In lieu of Ceci, do you propose we should have kept Zaitsev? If not, then whom was available that we could have traded for?
Who would you have taken over Barrie?
We are playing way below the level of talent we have on this team, it's time to change up the system. Are you confident Babcock can do that?
With 8 min left in the third, and being down two goals, why did the 4th line get so much ice time?
herman
Well-known member
No physicality isn?t really a problem to me. If you?ve seen any of the Marlies, Dubas is not a shrinking violet in that regard. He knows there?s a time and place. From what I can tell, Babcock and Dubas are both advocates for useful physicality, i.e. will this help you get the puck and score the goals. But like I said previously, there are a few ways of getting the puck that don?t appear that physical, and there?s also the physicality of shrugging off people ramming you and making a play. I also think players will grow to become comfortable dishing it. You see the Marlies grads who were down there for 3 years or so are regular hitters for puck separation: Dermott, Johnsson, Kapanen, Moore, Timashov, and now even Gauthier because he can catch up.
Strangelove
New member
There seems to be a pattern that the Leafs play poorly out of the gate when they're forced to play Babcock's ineffective "system", which involves line-matching and set plays rather than letting their best players play.
Once they are down by a goal or two (i.e. every game), they shift to a style where the players are allowed to play looser and rely on their skill and offensive instinct. That's when the comeback starts.
Babcock is, at this point in his career, a bit of a dinosaur. The team has a lot of issues (including a grossly overpaid group of forwards and a few terrible defencemen who play way too much) but coaching is absolutely at the core of what makes the Leafs so inconsistent. We've now played around 3/4 of a season at or around .500.
Once they are down by a goal or two (i.e. every game), they shift to a style where the players are allowed to play looser and rely on their skill and offensive instinct. That's when the comeback starts.
Babcock is, at this point in his career, a bit of a dinosaur. The team has a lot of issues (including a grossly overpaid group of forwards and a few terrible defencemen who play way too much) but coaching is absolutely at the core of what makes the Leafs so inconsistent. We've now played around 3/4 of a season at or around .500.
ZBBM
Active member
Sunbro said:
Oh, I agree that Babcock hasn't been able to get the team to perform up to their potential. Some coaches (the guy behind the Isles' bench tonight, e.g.) seem to be able to do just the opposite.
And sure Babcock's decisions are just mulish. He doesn't strike me as the world's most introspective guy.
But I don't think there's any chance Babcock will get fired during this season, so I don't focus on him. I think Dubas gets too much of the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, I would have kept Zaitsev if the only trade was for Ceci. Sure, that means they couldn't have afforded to pay Marner quite as much.
Heroic Shrimp
New member
I like watching hockey because it makes me sad and angry.
ZBBM
Active member
herman said:
That's a good answer, thoughtful as usual, but your list at the end? Those guys are not puck separators. The first three play the nuanced physical game you describe, but not the one I'm talking about. God bless Moore but he's too small, Timoshov not much more, and Gauthier is about as intimidating as Big Bird.