WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
Yeah, somebody brought this up earlier. Sundin finished top-10 in scoring as a Leaf twice. Kessel's about to do it for the 3rd straight season.
Leafs @ Jets - Jan. 25th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
- Thread starter CarltonTheBear
- Start date
Yeah, somebody brought this up earlier. Sundin finished top-10 in scoring as a Leaf twice. Kessel's about to do it for the 3rd straight season.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
*kool-aid man pic*
Man, he's always been up there but that just solidified his place as my second favourite current Leaf behind Kessel.
bustaheims
Active member
Potvin29 said:
L K
Active member
Kessel's a better point producer it would seem. Let's not forget the early days of Sundin's career though.
1990-91 Quebec Nordiques NHL 80 23 36 59 58 -24 -- -- -- -- --
1991-92 Quebec Nordiques NHL 80 33 43 76 103 -19 -- -- -- -- --
1992-93 Quebec Nordiques NHL 80 47 67 114 96 21 6 3 1 4 6
1993-94 Quebec Nordiques NHL 84 32 53 85 60 1 -- -- -- -- --
1994-95 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 47 23 24 47 14 -5 7 5 4 9 4
1995-96 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 76 33 50 83 46 8 6 3 1 4 4
1996-97 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 41 53 94 59 6 -- -- -- -- --
1997-98 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 33 41 74 49 -3 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 31 52 83 58 22 17 8 8 16 16
1999-00 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 73 32 41 73 46 16 12 3 5 8 10
2000-01 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 28 46 74 76 15 11 6 7 13 14
2001-02 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 41 39 80 94 6 8 2 5 7 4
2002-03 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 75 37 35 72 58 1 7 1 3 4 6
2003-04 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 81 31 44 75 52 11 9 4 5 9 8
Sundin had 6 seasons of >PPG performance. Sundin also played in the balloon goalie equipment era and the clutch and grab era. And a lot of what made Sundin great wasn't just his point production, but his ability to take over a game down low, hem the opposition in the offensive zone and change the flow of the game. Sundin changed his game over time to be less about being a pure goalscorer and more about being a complete player and team leader, especially in the Pat Quinn era.
Kessel scores a tonne of goals, but he really doesn't have that element to his game yet where he can slow the game down and really provide those consecutive shifts of controlling the play. It's probably never going to be a part of his game because so much of his skill is about making quick passes or taking high quality shots, but it's comparing two different styles of play.
Kessel is also getting to play with JVR which is nice rather than Renberg and Hoglund. Maybe Bozak is Kessel's Hoglund? Also to be fair Sundin got Roberts and Mogilny at times.
For Kessel he's working on his 3rd PPG stretch.
1990-91 Quebec Nordiques NHL 80 23 36 59 58 -24 -- -- -- -- --
1991-92 Quebec Nordiques NHL 80 33 43 76 103 -19 -- -- -- -- --
1992-93 Quebec Nordiques NHL 80 47 67 114 96 21 6 3 1 4 6
1993-94 Quebec Nordiques NHL 84 32 53 85 60 1 -- -- -- -- --
1994-95 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 47 23 24 47 14 -5 7 5 4 9 4
1995-96 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 76 33 50 83 46 8 6 3 1 4 4
1996-97 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 41 53 94 59 6 -- -- -- -- --
1997-98 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 33 41 74 49 -3 -- -- -- -- --
1998-99 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 31 52 83 58 22 17 8 8 16 16
1999-00 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 73 32 41 73 46 16 12 3 5 8 10
2000-01 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 28 46 74 76 15 11 6 7 13 14
2001-02 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 41 39 80 94 6 8 2 5 7 4
2002-03 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 75 37 35 72 58 1 7 1 3 4 6
2003-04 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 81 31 44 75 52 11 9 4 5 9 8
Sundin had 6 seasons of >PPG performance. Sundin also played in the balloon goalie equipment era and the clutch and grab era. And a lot of what made Sundin great wasn't just his point production, but his ability to take over a game down low, hem the opposition in the offensive zone and change the flow of the game. Sundin changed his game over time to be less about being a pure goalscorer and more about being a complete player and team leader, especially in the Pat Quinn era.
Kessel scores a tonne of goals, but he really doesn't have that element to his game yet where he can slow the game down and really provide those consecutive shifts of controlling the play. It's probably never going to be a part of his game because so much of his skill is about making quick passes or taking high quality shots, but it's comparing two different styles of play.
Kessel is also getting to play with JVR which is nice rather than Renberg and Hoglund. Maybe Bozak is Kessel's Hoglund? Also to be fair Sundin got Roberts and Mogilny at times.
For Kessel he's working on his 3rd PPG stretch.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
L K said:
Good breakdown LK, I think with regards to Sundin's seasons of scoring more than a PPG, league scoring was way up during this period, no?
GhostofPotvin29
New member
WhatIfGodWasALeaf said:
Here's a good resource on that:
http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalsPerGame.php
Hover the mouse over the lines on the graph to highlight individual seasons. Basically, last season there were 5.307 goals per game. 1997-98 and 1998-99, 2001-02, and 2003-04 were lower (not by a lot), and a few other seasons were similar. Early 90s were up around 6.5-7 goals per game.
J
Jalili
Guest
I think the closest thing to a Mats Sundin in the league right now is Anze Kopitar on the Kings.
Kopitar might be better defensively though, whereas Sundin was a much better goal scorer.
Kopitar might be better defensively though, whereas Sundin was a much better goal scorer.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
http://blog.mapleleafs.com/hot-kessel-riding-a-wave-of-cool/
Solid piece from Ulmer on why it's time Kessel gets his due.
Solid piece from Ulmer on why it's time Kessel gets his due.
GhostofPotvin29
New member
Most impressive to me:
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
For sure, considering how much trouble the team has had at 5 on 5, kinda amazing.