Leafs @ Penguins - Feb. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

[azzurri63]

Does Dubas have the guts to do what needs to be done at the deadline ? even if the Leafs are technically in a playoff spot?

And play Liljegren, for God's sake.

What would you like him to do?

I agree with playing Sandin and Lilegren as much as possible. Maybe trade Barrie if the return is good enough. Not sure what else should be done. The Leafs secondary scorers like Kapanen, Engvall, Kerfoot aren't producing and trading one of them will probably not get enough in return (presumably on defense) to make it worthwhile. I think we largely have to ride this out.

You maybe right although Kappy who has struggled did score a big OT goal on Friday. Still not enough though from him. I say Dubas trades Barrie if the right deal comes along. He is our biggest trade chip and we're not signing him. I can actually see Dubas trade anyone not named Matthews, Marner, JT, Sandin, Liljegren, Muzz.

This team is so flawed. Coach was fired and rightfully so the way he handled most players. Team has no defence and compete and grit completely non existent. Freddy has been poor lately but he's not the problem. The team hasn't for years played a good structured defensive game. They are so easy to play against. Trying to make some changes now and trade away more picks or prospects is a big mistake. Dubas has already done a good job at that. Get rid of all the FA's and recoup some picks or young prospects. Big 4 contracts are hurting and will for years to come so maybe look at getting rid of Nylander and fill an area of need. Stock the cupboards for next year and start fresh. Team isn't going to go anywhere this year so might as well recoup something.

Obviously bigger problems with this team than Babcock who I despised but this group doesn't cut it and part of that blame is on Dubas and his assessment of players.
Team has tons of skill but is definitely lacking compete.

 

[berserker]

Yes I consider the Clifford goal Spezza's.

Since I don't want to talk about the game, I'll expand on this thought from my MotM pick. It's weird to me that you're not allowed to kick or bat the puck  into the net with your hand. But if a puck is shot at you and deflects off your foot, hand, or any other body part you get credit for the goal. All goals should go to the last player on the scoring team that moved the puck with their stick. I'm aware this would remove like 5 goals from my buddy Zach Hyman's goal totals. Thank-you for your time.

Don't be silly, it is hard work being the guy taking the abuse in front of the net.  Screening
the goalie and taking the wacks and abuse from the defense.  A net front presence causing havoc results in a lot of goals and if the puck goes off that player it should be his goal

Unless he moves his foot the wrong way and then it's no goal for anyone.

  It could hit him in the rear end then go in, should be his goal

 

[Kin]

JT played the first 18 or so games with Marner and did nothing so that doesn't fly with me. He's had a difficult year.

I mean, tonight is just a perfect example of the problems the Leafs are going to have paying him 11 million per while a team like Pittsburgh has Crosby at 8.7.

And before the Capanista's start in on me, I know why Crosby's deal is cosmetically cheaper but the point isn't to compare the two directly but to make the point that the UFA market's inefficiency can really hurt. Lots of people, me included, were like "Eh, maybe it's not good value but Tavares is good and if you want him that's the cost" and that kind of thinking is proving costly.

 

[azzurri63]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1229964748193701888

I hate that the idea of "stripping" an A off of someone is so taboo because otherwise I'd say Muzzin should be getting one next season if he's sticking around long-term. Or you could go with a larger rotation like Rielly/Matthews one game and Muzzin/Marner the other. Or you could continue to think letters are completely meaningless. In any event nice to see him at least saying the right things. Here's hoping it hits the locker room hard.

How long do we have to keep hearing this crap. Tired of the excuses from these guys after every loss.

 

[Kin]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1229964748193701888

I hate that the idea of "stripping" an A off of someone is so taboo because otherwise I'd say Muzzin should be getting one next season if he's sticking around long-term. Or you could go with a larger rotation like Rielly/Matthews one game and Muzzin/Marner the other. Or you could continue to think letters are completely meaningless. In any event nice to see him at least saying the right things. Here's hoping it hits the locker room hard.

How long do we have to keep hearing this crap. Tired of the excuses from these guys after every loss.

How in the world is "that's unacceptable" an excuse?

 

[ZBBM]

JT played the first 18 or so games with Marner and did nothing so that doesn't fly with me. He's had a difficult year.

I mean, tonight is just a perfect example of the problems the Leafs are going to have paying him 11 million per while a team like Pittsburgh has Crosby at 8.7.

And before the Capanista's start in on me, I know why Crosby's deal is cosmetically cheaper but the point isn't to compare the two directly but to make the point that the UFA market's inefficiency can really hurt. Lots of people, me included, were like "Eh, maybe it's not good value but Tavares is good and if you want him that's the cost" and that kind of thinking is proving costly.

That's true but still I don't have any problem with Dubas signing Tavares like he did.  Yes, it's not good value this year but we can't complain about last year.  You just have to hope that this year's an aberration and not a turning point downward.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm agnostic on trading Barrie but other than that I don't actually think the Deadline is a good time to make hockey trades. If you want to trade Kapanen or Kerfoot or whoever I'd do that sort of thing at the draft.

Good point.  Barrie for sure.  And dare they trade Muzzin as a rental, if the rumors are true?

What rumours? Muzz is signing an extention and won't be traded. He's exactly the type of D man we need. We could use another on the right side for Rielly.
I would like to see
Rielly.. Dumba
Holl... Muzz
Liljegren.. Sandin
Would love to see Josh Anderson added to the forward group.

 

[Kin]

Yes, it's not good value this year but we can't complain about last year.

Clearly you underestimate my complaining powers.

No, seriously though, last year he was very good but even as good as he was last year he still had the 2nd highest cap hit in the league and was...a top 20 player? Top 15? He was 17th in Hart voting which may be about right.

So even when he's playing very well he's still not outperforming his salary.

 

[azzurri63]

JT played the first 18 or so games with Marner and did nothing so that doesn't fly with me. He's had a difficult year.

I mean, tonight is just a perfect example of the problems the Leafs are going to have paying him 11 million per while a team like Pittsburgh has Crosby at 8.7.

And before the Capanista's start in on me, I know why Crosby's deal is cosmetically cheaper but the point isn't to compare the two directly but to make the point that the UFA market's inefficiency can really hurt. Lots of people, me included, were like "Eh, maybe it's not good value but Tavares is good and if you want him that's the cost" and that kind of thinking is proving costly.

Nik I was under the same thinking when we signed him. Lots of money but didn't cost us anything else but that so I was ok with it. Problem I have and I know you don't want to hear it again is paying the other 3 top money. As much as I love all of them they haven't been in the league long enough to deserve the money Dubas gave them coming off their ELC's. Tavares has been around and whether the $11 million was too much or not he has paid his dues and little easier to swallow giving him that big money.
The other 3 contracts put Dubas in a bind as far as doing anything else. He limited what he could do and I think that hurt this team big time.
Sometimes you have to play hardball and say this is max we will give you take it or leave it.

Question for you or anyone else.
Would this team be worse if we would have traded either 34, 88 or 16?

 

[Palmateer29]

Depends on what is coming back

 

[azzurri63]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1229964748193701888

I hate that the idea of "stripping" an A off of someone is so taboo because otherwise I'd say Muzzin should be getting one next season if he's sticking around long-term. Or you could go with a larger rotation like Rielly/Matthews one game and Muzzin/Marner the other. Or you could continue to think letters are completely meaningless. In any event nice to see him at least saying the right things. Here's hoping it hits the locker room hard.

How long do we have to keep hearing this crap. Tired of the excuses from these guys after every loss.

How in the world is "that's unacceptable" an excuse?

It's the same crap after every loss. Put up or shut up. Dubas should see that. If there are players not willing to compete each and every shift then send them off. Talent this team has when completely healthy is second to none but the compete, drive, heart etc etc is not there. Not all on Dubas but that's a quality GM's should be looking for. Said it before give me a guy with heart first and foremost before someone with talent who is there for a pay check and that's it.

 

[Kin]

Tavares has been around and whether the $11 million was too much or not he has paid his dues and little easier to swallow giving him that big money.

Quite frankly, that's ridiculous. Why in the world should I care about "dues paying" as opposed to whether or not they're providing good value?

The other 3 contracts put Dubas in a bind as far as doing anything else. He limited what he could do and I think that hurt this team big time.

If those three had signed for 5 million collectively less then the team would have an extra....let me do the math....5 million. 5 million is not a huge amount and would not substantially impact what the team could do and there are other, better ways to make that savings.

 

[Kin]

It's the same crap after every loss.

I really don't think you're in any position to call anyone out for repeating the same crap after every loss.

 

[azzurri63]

Depends on what is coming back

I'm sure the haul would be pretty good. I hate to see any of these guys gone especially 34 and 16 but maybe that's what's needed. Your losing a star player but maybe strengthening your team in more than one area might make you a better all round team.

 

[azzurri63]

It's the same crap after every loss.

I really don't think you're in any position to call anyone out for repeating the same crap after every loss.

No different that a lot on here who game after game think oh well onto the next one.

 

[Kin]

No different that a lot on here who game after game think oh well onto the next one.

Yes. Those maniacs who don't get worked up about a recreational pasttime they have absolutely no control over.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm agnostic on trading Barrie but other than that I don't actually think the Deadline is a good time to make hockey trades. If you want to trade Kapanen or Kerfoot or whoever I'd do that sort of thing at the draft.

Good point.  Barrie for sure.  And dare they trade Muzzin as a rental, if the rumors are true?

What rumours? Muzz is signing an extention and won't be traded. He's exactly the type of D man we need. We could use another on the right side for Rielly.
I would like to see
Rielly.. Dumba
Holl... Muzz
Liljegren.. Sandin
Would love to see Josh Anderson added to the forward group.

Rumors that they want to extend him.  Has he signed yet?  If not, he could be a rental.

Of course it's not bloody likely but like I said it would be daring.

 

[Kin]

Rumors that they want to extend him.  Has he signed yet?  If not, he could be a rental.

Of course it's not bloody likely but like I said it would be daring.

If you sign him for a reasonable amount and don't give trade protection he's more valuable in a potential future trade than as a rental.

 

[ZBBM]

Yes, it's not good value this year but we can't complain about last year.

Clearly you underestimate my complaining powers.

No, seriously though, last year he was very good but even as good as he was last year he still had the 2nd highest cap hit in the league and was...a top 20 player? Top 15? He was 17th in Hart voting which may be about right.

So even when he's playing very well he's still not outperforming his salary.

Point taken. Well taken.  But OTOH in the annals of GM overpaying for UFAs his deal is not something you'd file under Awful.

 

[ZBBM]

Rumors that they want to extend him.  Has he signed yet?  If not, he could be a rental.

Of course it's not bloody likely but like I said it would be daring.

If you sign him for a reasonable amount and don't give trade protection he's more valuable in a potential future trade than as a rental.

So long as he doesn't start declining.  4 years is not too long for guy his age but the risk of that is real.