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Leafs @ Sharks - Feb. 28th, 10:30pm - SNO, Fan 590

Zee said:
Andy said:
azzurri63 said:
I honestly have had enough of this this season. I don't care how young we are the defence every f'n game is absolutely brutal. JVR with the giveaway. Marner, Gardiner skate by guys like ffs knock someone down. I would of benched Gardiner 2 periods ago. If they can find a good deal for him tomorrow get rid of the useless t*t. Message to management find some guys that can play D, have some ball* and some toughness. Had  chance to grab a point and let it slip away. What we expect been happening all year.
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Jesus, we all get it, you love toughness and seeing guys getting knocked over. Do we need multiple variations of this tirade every single GDT?

And by the way, defensemen can't just knock over guys at will or because they're parked in front of the net. This isn't NHL 92.
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How did Lidstrom ever succeed in the NHL without running guys over?
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He knew how to play defence. Of which no-one on our backend does. Do you have a pvr? If you do I suggest recording a game most games last night included and see how many times these guys make poor decisions. How many times they can get in someone's way. Times when they can knock someone down in front of the net. Ya the league has changed but they haven't outlawed hitting. Not yet anyway. Watch the OT goal. Marner, Gardiner probably someone else can't remember could have easily knocked down the SJ forward. Or at least impeded his entrance into the zone. team is way too soft every single night. The thing that bugs me the most is Babcock. We've seen this play out a ton this year. Why don't you call a timeout with a few minutes left and get these guys to focus on D. Never mind trying to win it in Regulation. Get the point even if you have to play a trap the last 2-3-4 minutes. We have squandered a whack of points this year. And bulls**t it's a learning curve. They should have it figured out by now.
 
If the team scores 1 goal and has 21 shots and you spend your time ranting about the defense there's an excellent chance you're falling victim to a degree of confirmation bias.
 
Learning curve? A team slated by most to finish near the bottom of league should have figured things out after 60 games? Seriously? Three of the regulars on defense are borderline 6/7 guys. The other three are currently 3/4 guys. 60% of the forwards are rookies. I'm astonished this team is in a playoff spot. How is Babcock supposed to do any better? Are you under the impression he works at Hogwarts?
 
Andy said:
Learning curve? A team slated by most to finish near the bottom of league should have figured things out after 60 games? Seriously? Three of the regulars on defense are borderline 6/7 guys. The other three are currently 3/4 guys. 60% of the forwards are rookies. I'm astonished this team is in a playoff spot. How is Babcock supposed to do any better? Are you under the impression he works at Hogwarts?
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I get all that and agree but you honestly think it takes a whole season to fix dome of these problems? You telling me these guys can't figure it out? You telling me Babcock can't alter anything either in personnel or play? C'mon man I have an 8 month old pup here and the things he's learned and stopped doing in the 4 months we've had him is astounding. All I'm saying is if we have to play a boring NJ style trap later in games so be it. Get the point and take your chances in OT or the SO.
 
azzurri63 said:
Andy said:
Learning curve? A team slated by most to finish near the bottom of league should have figured things out after 60 games? Seriously? Three of the regulars on defense are borderline 6/7 guys. The other three are currently 3/4 guys. 60% of the forwards are rookies. I'm astonished this team is in a playoff spot. How is Babcock supposed to do any better? Are you under the impression he works at Hogwarts?
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I get all that and agree but you honestly think it takes a whole season to fix dome of these problems? You telling me these guys can't figure it out? You telling me Babcock can't alter anything either in personnel or play? C'mon man I have an 8 month old pup here and the things he's learned and stopped doing in the 4 months we've had him is astounding. All I'm saying is if we have to play a boring NJ style trap later in games so be it. Get the point and take your chances in OT or the SO.
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Smarter hockey minds than you say it takes 3/400 games to learn how to play/get comfortable playing good d at the NHL level, so yes it takes more than 60 games.
 
There is no foolproof, high percentage way to not let the other team score in the waning moments of a game. What most people agree on though is that sitting back and just playing defensive hockey is one of the better ways to blow a lead.

This is what is continuously missed by this simplistic and repetitive criticism. There is no one "it" to figure it out. Offenses will constantly throw different tactics at a defense in an attempt to generate chances. It's a criticism based on the idea that coaching is as simple as saying "Play defense good, not bad!"
 
azzurri63 said:
I get all that and agree but you honestly think it takes a whole season to fix dome of these problems? You telling me these guys can't figure it out? You telling me Babcock can't alter anything either in personnel or play? C'mon man I have an 8 month old pup here and the things he's learned and stopped doing in the 4 months we've had him is astounding. All I'm saying is if we have to play a boring NJ style trap later in games so be it. Get the point and take your chances in OT or the SO.
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Firstly, the puppy analogy is kind of silly. You're comparing training one animal to learn some pretty straightforward tasks to a group of humans trying to unlearn past habits and learn new ones to execute in a complex, evolving, and fluid environment. They're nowhere near equal.

Secondly, you're really placing veteran expectations on a young team. A group of guys who have all been in the league for at least 5 seasons could probably adapt over the course of a single season. The Leafs, however, are filled with guys still learning how to play at the NHL level. That's a pretty steep learning curve for a lot of players.
 
Nik the Trik said:
There is no foolproof, high percentage way to not let the other team score in the waning moments of a game. What most people agree on though is that sitting back and just playing defensive hockey is one of the better ways to blow a lead.

This is what is continuously missed by this simplistic and repetitive criticism. There is no one "it" to figure it out. Offenses will constantly throw different tactics at a defense in an attempt to generate chances. It's a criticism based on the idea that coaching is as simple as saying "Play defense good, not bad!"
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The coaching skill becomes most evident during those dying minutes through his player usage.
 
Nik the Trik said:
There is no foolproof, high percentage way to not let the other team score in the waning moments of a game. What most people agree on though is that sitting back and just playing defensive hockey is one of the better ways to blow a lead.

This is what is continuously missed by this simplistic and repetitive criticism. There is no one "it" to figure it out. Offenses will constantly throw different tactics at a defense in an attempt to generate chances. It's a criticism based on the idea that coaching is as simple as saying "Play defense good, not bad!"
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Defending a lead and tie are two different things. If SJ was down a goal they would be coming hard and if we sat back yes I would agree but in a tie game you don't want to make a mistake that's going to cost you the point. SJ probably thinking the same. No reason for giving up an odd man rush in a tie game with couple minutes left plain and simple.
 
bustaheims said:
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
They were tied with two mins left with one of the best teams in the league. It wasn't /all/ Andersen.
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It was like 95% Andersen. They were heavily outplayed, outshot, out puck-possessed, etc. The score was not a reflection of their play.
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He played a good positional game, and of course they were outshot -- they always are.  But he didn't stand on his head or anything.
 
azzurri63 said:
Defending a lead and tie are two different things. If SJ was down a goal they would be coming hard and if we sat back yes I would agree but in a tie game you don't want to make a mistake that's going to cost you the point. SJ probably thinking the same. No reason for giving up an odd man rush in a tie game with couple minutes left plain and simple.
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If I'm coaching and I see the other team sit back then whether or not I'm going to press is dependent on whether or not I think my forwards can effectively contain the puck. Being as the Sharks have a very good group of forwards and the Leafs don't have a great group of defenders I'd probably be comfortable making that trade.

Regardless, tie game or not there's nothing a team can do to just shut down the other team. You're always going to be susceptible to mistakes, blown coverage and the other team just making good plays.

Your expectations wouldn't be realistic for the best defensive team in the league, let alone a not very good one.
 
You're over complicating things Nik. Just knock a couple of guys down and play more goodly hockey
 
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