Matt Martin traded to the Islanders

[ZBBM]

I appreciate your perspective boss, I know you coach and can see these things, but he?s had several years of Barb Underhill tutelage since then. Having watched him on the Marlies a fair bit, I think he skates as well or better than most NHL fourth liners.

Yeah, and even if he still doesn't look fast, the few times we saw him last year he was able to close in quickly, to retrieve pucks pretty well, and, as I recall, to make a play.

He also had some nights/shifts where he looked utterly disengaged and listless...what Babcock would call "inconsistent compete." It seemed to me that he got beaten out in the line-up by not being as consistently relentless and hungry as some of the other guys he had to beat out for his spot. For the spot he was vying for in the lineup his hands/scoring were almost secondary...he had to spend most of his time in the O-zone. In his admittedly small sample size in 2017-18 he took a big step back in this department.

I'm with Hobbes.  I honestly don't know why anyone would get too invested in him as a player.  Johnsson came in and made an immediate impact in ways Leivo never has.  He's all right, but I'd prefer all four lines to be as fast as possible, especially given that involved backchecking is key to making the defense work.  Speed really helps there..

 

[mr grieves]

I'm with Hobbes.  I honestly don't know why anyone would get too invested in him as a player.  Johnsson came in and made an immediate impact in ways Leivo never has.  He's all right, but I'd prefer all four lines to be as fast as possible, especially given that involved backchecking is key to making the defense work.  Speed really helps there..

You sure you wanna put it like that?

[opens Corsica in new tab]

 

[Kin]

He also had some nights/shifts where he looked utterly disengaged and listless...what Babcock would call "inconsistent compete." It seemed to me that he got beaten out in the line-up by not being as consistently relentless and hungry as some of the other guys he had to beat out for his spot. For the spot he was vying for in the lineup his hands/scoring were almost secondary...he had to spend most of his time in the O-zone. In his admittedly small sample size in 2017-18 he took a big step back in this department.

But isn't that the whole point? Leivo isn't a high energy grinder or a physical presence like Martin. He's an opportunistic scorer and, as anyone familiar with JVR's time here can attest, when opportunistic scorers aren't scoring they give the impression of taking games off.

Right? The whole thing here is making moves so maybe Babcock can't play his 4th line favourites so the answer can't be "Well, Leivo would be in the lineup if he just played exactly like Babcock's 4th line favourites".

 

[OldTimeHockey]

What I love is, Dubas systematically dismantling and taking away all of Babcock's favourite toys. 

**giggles** 

This is what Ray Ferraro said late last year when the debate was Johnsson or Leo. Ray said it's up to the next GM to take away Mike's toys as it forces him to play your guys. I suspect that Leivo may actually get a chance this year. I think he's an NHLer but Babs had too many options. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Leivo with Lindholm and Brown as a 4th line. I think Johnsson and Kaps will play with Kadri. Going to be interesting for sure!

I'm still of the opinion that after watching Leivo's junior here's in Sudbury that he is too weak of a skater to be a full time NHLer.

I appreciate your perspective boss, I know you coach and can see these things, but he?s had several years of Barb Underhill tutelage since then. Having watched him on the Marlies a fair bit, I think he skates as well or better than most NHL fourth liners.

Well I am comparing it to my times watching him as an 18 year old as opposed to the dozen times a year he gets on the ice with the Leafs.

The guy has skill. There's no doubt. Whether it's his skating ability, or his lack of work ethic that puts off the coaching staff, there's definitely something. For me it was his skating and laziness. He was a very frustrating player to watch especially when Sudbury had competitive teams and he was supposed to be your most skilled player on the ice and he would completely disappear.

I'm of the opinion that he'll always be a fringe player for those reasons.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

"Well, Leivo would be in the lineup if he just played exactly like Babcock's 4th line favourites".

I don't think anyone is saying that they'd like players in there to play like Martin.

 

[hockeyfan1]

I appreciate your perspective boss, I know you coach and can see these things, but he?s had several years of Barb Underhill tutelage since then. Having watched him on the Marlies a fair bit, I think he skates as well or better than most NHL fourth liners.

Yeah, and even if he still doesn't look fast, the few times we saw him last year he was able to close in quickly, to retrieve pucks pretty well, and, as I recall, to make a play.

He also had some nights/shifts where he looked utterly disengaged and listless...what Babcock would call "inconsistent compete." It seemed to me that he got beaten out in the line-up by not being as consistently relentless and hungry as some of the other guys he had to beat out for his spot. For the spot he was vying for in the lineup his hands/scoring were almost secondary...he had to spend most of his time in the O-zone. In his admittedly small sample size in 2017-18 he took a big step back in this department.

If consistency is the key, and not if but it is, then it's safe to say that Johnsson takes the cake over Leivo.  In the games that we saw these two pkay, Johnson made for a slightly better impression on that ice.  While it's true that Leivo played in so few games, whatever we saw of him, speed was not a problem. Rather, his inconsistency and yes, his spending time in the offensive zone at the expense of defensive play obviously indicates an indifference to improvement (in Babcock's view).