Matthews placed on IR

[Kin]

But why would you keep 29 yr old UFA Ennis over 25 yr old RFA Leivo?  Its not like Ennis has played any better- in fact, I'd say Leivo has been the better of the two most nights.

It might be because of the two of them, Ennis is the guy who'd be a better dressing room presence/practice guy if they're eventually relegated to the press box. Not saying anything about Leivo specifically but I can imagine that he'd maybe be a little more personally upset by the demotion.

 

[herman]

But why would you keep 29 yr old UFA Ennis over 25 yr old RFA Leivo?  Its not like Ennis has played any better- in fact, I'd say Leivo has been the better of the two most nights.

It might be because of the two of them, Ennis is the guy who'd be a better dressing room presence/practice guy if they're eventually relegated to the press box. Not saying anything about Leivo specifically but I can imagine that he'd maybe be a little more personally upset by the demotion.

I don't think either are in the long-term cards anyway, so for me it came down to which wing we needed. Leivo has been a good fit with Gauthier as they both play the same pace, but seeing as how I'm making Gauthier the extra centre and Lindholm didn't work out with Leivo previously, then I'm taking Ennis until the deadline (maybe beyond for that veteran intangibility).

 

[Coco-puffs]

But why would you keep 29 yr old UFA Ennis over 25 yr old RFA Leivo?  Its not like Ennis has played any better- in fact, I'd say Leivo has been the better of the two most nights.

It might be because of the two of them, Ennis is the guy who'd be a better dressing room presence/practice guy if they're eventually relegated to the press box. Not saying anything about Leivo specifically but I can imagine that he'd maybe be a little more personally upset by the demotion.

Thats the thing- if they continue to carry 8 D-men and Gauthier is your extra forward when Matthews and Nylander return, then one of them has to play (4th line) while the other has to be traded or waived.  You'd rather lose Ennis or Leivo?  If Ennis goes on waivers there is less of a chance of him getting claimed than Leivo IMO, so are you saying you'd be worried about Ennis sulking about his demotion to the Marlies?  And that would be the reason to trade/waive Leivo instead?

 

[princedpw]

I propose:
1: Hyman-Tavares-Marner
1: Ennis/Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
2: Marleau-Kadri-Kapanen
3: Johnsson/Ennis-Lindholm-Brown

These lines seem quite likely.  I'd be most curious to see what happens if you were to throw Leivo on the Matthews line:

1: Hyman-Tavares-Marner
1: Leivo-Matthews-Nylander
2: Marleau-Kadri-Kapanen
3: Johnsson-Lindholm-Brown

Leivo has been great along the boards and has been able to feed passes to his linemates from the boards.  If Matthews was one of his linemates receiving such passes, I think it is pretty likely Leivo would begin to pile up assists.  Having a heavy to dig out pucks for Matthews/Nylander seems like a big plus.  I do worry that Leivo isn't fast enough but I'd love to see what happens.  I worry Johnsson isn't big enough.  Johnsson's strengths seems to be on the carry but that seems redundant with Matthews/Nylander.

I also wonder if our best team would now have Marleau on the bench:

1: Hyman-Tavares-Marner
1: Leivo-Matthews-Nylander
2: Johnsson-Kadri-Kapanen
3: Ennis-Lindholm-Brown

 

[Coco-puffs]

But why would you keep 29 yr old UFA Ennis over 25 yr old RFA Leivo?  Its not like Ennis has played any better- in fact, I'd say Leivo has been the better of the two most nights.

It might be because of the two of them, Ennis is the guy who'd be a better dressing room presence/practice guy if they're eventually relegated to the press box. Not saying anything about Leivo specifically but I can imagine that he'd maybe be a little more personally upset by the demotion.

I don't think either are in the long-term cards anyway, so for me it came down to which wing we needed. Leivo has been a good fit with Gauthier as they both play the same pace, but seeing as how I'm making Gauthier the extra centre and Lindholm didn't work out with Leivo previously, then I'm taking Ennis until the deadline (maybe beyond for that veteran intangibility).

- Leivo can play LW and has played it probably more than he's played RW so I'm not worried about handedness.
- With the cap crunch coming, I have my doubts we'll be able to keep all of our RFA wingers... Johnsson, Kapanen, Nylander, and Marner all require deals between now and next year.  I won't be surprised if Leivo is in the long term plan.  Ennis, I'd have my doubts about.
- Of course Corsica is down, but how much time did Lindholm and Leivo play together?  IIRC, Leivo and Lindholdm didn't play on the same line AT ALL this year.  Leivo was with Kadri the first few games of the season and by the 5th game of the year, the 4th line was Ennis-Goat-Leivo, with Johnsson subbing in.  Once Matthews was injured, Johnsson moved onto the 3rd line with Lindholm and the lines have pretty much been static since.

 

[Kin]

Thats the thing- if they continue to carry 8 D-men and Gauthier is your extra forward when Matthews and Nylander return, then one of them has to play (4th line) while the other has to be traded or waived.

Gauthier might be the "extra" forward but I don't think that means he's going to be sitting for 60 games in a row. I think what you'll probably see is some rotation at the bottom of the lineup and I think Leivo might be the guy who least appreciates going from playing everyday to being bounced in and out.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Thats the thing- if they continue to carry 8 D-men and Gauthier is your extra forward when Matthews and Nylander return, then one of them has to play (4th line) while the other has to be traded or waived.

Gauthier might be the "extra" forward but I don't think that means he's going to be sitting for 60 games in a row. I think what you'll probably see is some rotation at the bottom of the lineup and I think Leivo might be the guy who least appreciates going from playing everyday to being bounced in and out.

Considering his history here of being professional about sitting in the pressbox alot, I'd be really surprised by that- but sure, its possible he gets sick of it after 2 previous seasons doing it.  Just the same as a guy like Ennis who has been a top 6 player before in his career- I highly doubt he'd be happy in the pressbox either.  My point is, I wouldn't make a decision on which player to keep based on how happy they will be with having nights in the pressbox.  It be last on my list of concerns.

 

[herman]

- Leivo can play LW and has played it probably more than he's played RW so I'm not worried about handedness.
- With the cap crunch coming, I have my doubts we'll be able to keep all of our RFA wingers... Johnsson, Kapanen, Nylander, and Marner all require deals between now and next year.  I won't be surprised if Leivo is in the long term plan.  Ennis, I'd have my doubts about.
- Of course Corsica is down, but how much time did Lindholm and Leivo play together?  IIRC, Leivo and Lindholdm didn't play on the same line AT ALL this year.  Leivo was with Kadri the first few games of the season and by the 5th game of the year, the 4th line was Ennis-Goat-Leivo, with Johnsson subbing in.  Once Matthews was injured, Johnsson moved onto the 3rd line with Lindholm and the lines have pretty much been static since.

Ah you're right, Leivo was with Kadri (it didn't work this time), and then Lindholm was with Kadri (alright).

I really don't think Leivo is the long-term option (we're currently flush with RWs) and I don't think the coaching staff trusts him on his off-wing.

That being said, this is the McElhinney/Sparks of 4W so do we hang onto the younger RFA winger that the coach nothings, or the UFA veteran whose had some strong showings in limited sample? They're both so very very replaceable.

 

[Kin]

My point is, I wouldn't make a decision on which player to keep based on how happy they will be with having nights in the pressbox.  It be last on my list of concerns.

Fair enough. Given the fact that neither guy figures to be a long term piece and that their respective impacts while here are minimal, their off-ice influence and "good guy in the dressing room" quotient seems to me to be the only real concern. Honestly, if both guys were launched into the sun tomorrow they could call up Marchment or someone and I'd be just as happy.

 

[Coco-puffs]

- Leivo can play LW and has played it probably more than he's played RW so I'm not worried about handedness.
- With the cap crunch coming, I have my doubts we'll be able to keep all of our RFA wingers... Johnsson, Kapanen, Nylander, and Marner all require deals between now and next year.  I won't be surprised if Leivo is in the long term plan.  Ennis, I'd have my doubts about.
- Of course Corsica is down, but how much time did Lindholm and Leivo play together?  IIRC, Leivo and Lindholdm didn't play on the same line AT ALL this year.  Leivo was with Kadri the first few games of the season and by the 5th game of the year, the 4th line was Ennis-Goat-Leivo, with Johnsson subbing in.  Once Matthews was injured, Johnsson moved onto the 3rd line with Lindholm and the lines have pretty much been static since.

Ah you're right, Leivo was with Kadri (it didn't work this time), and then Lindholm was with Kadri (alright).

I really don't think Leivo is the long-term option (we're currently flush with RWs) and I don't think the coaching staff trusts him on his off-wing.

That being said, this is the McElhinney/Sparks of 4W so do we hang onto the younger RFA winger that the coach nothings, or the UFA veteran whose had some strong showings in limited sample? They're both so very very replaceable.

Yes, I agree, we have LOTS of right-handed wingers (Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Hyman, Brown, Leivo).  It does sort of make Leivo more expendable.  But I wouldn't move on from him at the expense of Ennis is my point.  He hasn't done anything to show he's more useful than Leivo and Ennis can walk at the end of the year.

And next year, we may not be able to keep all of our wingers.  Everyone looks at just trying to keep Matthews-Marner-Nylander, but the fact that Kapanen and Johnsson also require new deals means we may take a hit in depth there.  Other than Moore and Marchment, I don't see many wingers on the Marlies I'd be happy getting a spot over Leivo.

Fair enough. Given the fact that neither guy figures to be a long term piece and that their respective impacts while here are minimal, their off-ice influence and "good guy in the dressing room" quotient seems to me to be the only real concern. Honestly, if both guys were launched into the sun tomorrow they could call up Marchment or someone and I'd be just as happy.

On this, I'd agree.  Marchment or Moore I'd be fine with replacing both Leivo and Ennis.  However, I'd not launch anyone into the sun because injuries do happen and the Marlies should still be respectable.  (And they probably would be if they had a goalie)

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Keep them both and waive Gauthier. He very likely clears, and if he doesn't who cares. We still have Cracknell signed and if need be Greening could easily be signed to a NHL deal. They aren't NHLers but neither is Freddy.

 

[Kin]

Keep them both and waive Gauthier. He very likely clears, and if he doesn't who cares. We still have Cracknell signed and if need be Greening could easily be signed to a NHL deal. They aren't NHLers but neither is Freddy.

Seriously. This is whatever the inverse of shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic would be. Worrying about the colour of the shoulder patches on Apollo 11 or something.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Let's also remember that (assuming he's signed) Nylander becomes a potential C as well. So if one of our big-3 centres gets hurt he would be able to move to the middle, meaning the value of a 5C as an injury replacement (which is all Gauthier is) is slightly diminished.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Meh. In 3-4 years, Tavares starts the downswing, and I'd rather have a top 5 player in the league to take over as #1 C rather than gambling on other options. Unless, of course, Matthews would rather be elsewhere.

Matthews is already the Leafs #1 centre so there's no taking over. Would the Oilers trade McDavid? Would Pitts trade Crosby in his prime because they had Gino? Not a chance. Only in Leafland would a troll suggest such a thing.

1) No he's not, at least not yet.
2) I'm not saying they should trade Matthews, I'm saying they shouldn't even entertain the thought.  He'll take over as number 1 as the career arcs intersect and his defensive play gets better.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Meh. In 3-4 years, Tavares starts the downswing, and I'd rather have a top 5 player in the league to take over as #1 C rather than gambling on other options. Unless, of course, Matthews would rather be elsewhere.

Matthews is already the Leafs #1 centre so there's no taking over. Would the Oilers trade McDavid? Would Pitts trade Crosby in his prime because they had Gino? Not a chance. Only in Leafland would a troll suggest such a thing.

1) No he's not, at least not yet.
2) I'm not saying they should trade Matthews, I'm saying they shouldn't even entertain the thought.  He'll take over as number 1 as the career arcs intersect and his defensive play gets better.

1)You're entitled to your opinion as am I.
2) That was in response to answers above yours suggesting to trade Matthews.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/markhmasters/status/1065690804965048320

This upcoming Monday would be exactly 4 weeks since he was placed on IR.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1067459388351422466

It's happening!

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1067459388351422466

It's happening!

Woohoo. Don't mind seeing him wait til Saturday though.

 

[Zee]

https://twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/1067459388351422466

It's happening!

AM + WN on Saturday. Believe

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Woohoo. Don't mind seeing him wait til Saturday though.

Same actually. And of course this doesn't mean he's playing tomorrow.