Men's Olympic hockey

[TML fan]

It's true the US won't clog the middle like the teams with no offence. I think the US has the edge in net. Canada's goalies haven't really been tested. That could ultimately be the difference. The scores of the last two games haven't really been indicative of how the games were played. I never felt Canada was in danger of losing either of them. It was simply a matter of time.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm just going to come right out and say it.... Kessel and co. are going to kill the Canadians on Friday. I can just feel it. Price will get pulled before the half way mark. Canada doesn't have an answer to the US scoring prowess this tournament. Weber and Doughty cant do it all by themselves.

5-2 U.S.

I think you're looking a little too much into the final scores. USA and Czech's were almost even in shots; US was just able to exploit an abysmal goaltender (Pavelec). Against Russia they were saved by a net being a fraction of an inch off and won in a shootout, in a game that the Russians mostly controlled. Without PP time USA were dominated, imo.

Not to say that USA is bad, mind you, but they certainly shouldn't "kill" Canada. If Canada plays a disciplined game and doesn't give the U.S too much PP time, I feel Canada can take it.

I'm not just looking at the scoreboards, but rather the lack of scoring from Canada, and the abundance of scoring form the US. When two of your defensemen have scored more goals than the rest of your entire team, that doesn't bode particularly well against a team that has been lights out the entire tournament.

Can Canada still win? Sure. Latvia almost beat Canada today. Anything can happen. But the odds have suddenly been stacked pretty high against this Canadian squad. Maybe coming in as the underdog will have a positive effect on Canada, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[L K]

Some of that was probably the Latvians having five guys through the neutral zone on a lot of those rushes. That and being on the Canadian players like second jerseys.

Yeah the American game is going to be very interesting. Every team Canada has played so far has essentially played to not lose. They've locked down defensively and hoped to win a 2-1 or 1-0 game. The US will really be the only team that will attack Canada, and while that may give us some more room to run and gun, it's also going to test our defense and goaltending for the first time all tournament.

I guess, but part of why teams have played a defensive shell game against Canada has been that it is working.  Canada is ultimately 4-0 so far, but they were held close in 3 of their 4 games.  The US has faced similar inferior opponents in Slovakia and Slovenia and just overwhelmed them by scoring goals. 

Canada isn't going to have the same kind of puck possession against the US and outside of the defense really haven't shown any ability to finish plays.  The quick crisp passes are still missing from this team, particularly on the PP.  Maybe those posts start to go in but there really aren't any players who seemed poised for a breakout tonight, even with the shot discrepancy.

 

[drummond]

Pavelec was a disgrace, 3 out of 4 goals were his and only his goals. Take for example JvR goal, a classic Pavelec.

Anyway, I believe Canada can beat the US. US game looks pretty good but they were fortunate to play open games against teams which were engaged in offense. Canada played against teams which trapped all the time (incl Finland) and it is really difficult to claw through that wall of 5 players collapsing in fornt of the goal. Against the US I do expect open, up and down offensive hockey, which will suit Canada very well. By the way Quick was not exactelly spectacular against the Czechs either. I am neither Canadian nor American and as I see the things I believe there is a slight advantage in favour of Canada.

I am very much looking forward to seeing US-Canada semifinal (it should have been the final game), Sweden-Finland is going to be boring chess game

 

[TML fan]

I'm just going to come right out and say it.... Kessel and co. are going to kill the Canadians on Friday. I can just feel it. Price will get pulled before the half way mark. Canada doesn't have an answer to the US scoring prowess this tournament. Weber and Doughty cant do it all by themselves.

5-2 U.S.

I think you're looking a little too much into the final scores. USA and Czech's were almost even in shots; US was just able to exploit an abysmal goaltender (Pavelec). Against Russia they were saved by a net being a fraction of an inch off and won in a shootout, in a game that the Russians mostly controlled. Without PP time USA were dominated, imo.

Not to say that USA is bad, mind you, but they certainly shouldn't "kill" Canada. If Canada plays a disciplined game and doesn't give the U.S too much PP time, I feel Canada can take it.

I'm not just looking at the scores, but rather the lack of scoring from Canada, and the abundance of scoring form the US. When two of your defensemen have scored more goals than the rest of your entire team, that doesn't bode particularly well against a team that has been lights out the entire tournament. Can Canada still win? Sure. Latvia almost beat Canada today. Anything can happen. But the odds have suddenly been stacked pretty high against this Canadian squad. Maybe coming in as the underdog will have a positive effect on Canada, but I'm not counting on it.

Canada has needed to generate the majority of their offence from the blue line because they've only played teams who clog the middle and collapse on their goalie. It's hard to get to the middle of the ice and even harder to score from the outside against even a semi-competent goaltender. Plus in the Olympics hooking and holding don't seem to be penalties so it's even easier for teams that only defend, to defend.

Latvia didn't almost beat Canada. They got lucky on a set play and Price didn't play the breakway very well. Latvia may have been in the game on the scoreboard but they never really had a chance to win.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm just going to come right out and say it.... Kessel and co. are going to kill the Canadians on Friday. I can just feel it. Price will get pulled before the half way mark. Canada doesn't have an answer to the US scoring prowess this tournament. Weber and Doughty cant do it all by themselves.

5-2 U.S.

I think you're looking a little too much into the final scores. USA and Czech's were almost even in shots; US was just able to exploit an abysmal goaltender (Pavelec). Against Russia they were saved by a net being a fraction of an inch off and won in a shootout, in a game that the Russians mostly controlled. Without PP time USA were dominated, imo.

Not to say that USA is bad, mind you, but they certainly shouldn't "kill" Canada. If Canada plays a disciplined game and doesn't give the U.S too much PP time, I feel Canada can take it.

I'm not just looking at the scores, but rather the lack of scoring from Canada, and the abundance of scoring form the US. When two of your defensemen have scored more goals than the rest of your entire team, that doesn't bode particularly well against a team that has been lights out the entire tournament. Can Canada still win? Sure. Latvia almost beat Canada today. Anything can happen. But the odds have suddenly been stacked pretty high against this Canadian squad. Maybe coming in as the underdog will have a positive effect on Canada, but I'm not counting on it.

Canada has needed to generate the majority of their offence from the blue line because they've only played teams who clog the middle and collapse on their goalie. It's hard to get to the middle of the ice and even harder to score from the outside against even a semi-competent goaltender. Plus in the Olympics hooking and holding don't seem to be penalties so it's even easier for teams that only defend, to defend.

Latvia didn't almost beat Canada. They got lucky on a set play and Price didn't play the breakway very well. Latvia may have been in the game on the scoreboard but they never really had a chance to win.

A team always has a chance to win when they hold the other team to a tie game until the final minutes of the third. Latvia most certainly had a chance to win the game today. The fact that they were outshot and outplayed by a wide margin doesn't mean a thing if they were able to score a last minute goal, which could have happened. Have you not been watching the Leafs games this season? 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Some of that was probably the Latvians having five guys through the neutral zone on a lot of those rushes. That and being on the Canadian players like second jerseys.

Yeah the American game is going to be very interesting. Every team Canada has played so far has essentially played to not lose. They've locked down defensively and hoped to win a 2-1 or 1-0 game. The US will really be the only team that will attack Canada, and while that may give us some more room to run and gun, it's also going to test our defense and goaltending for the first time all tournament.

I guess, but part of why teams have played a defensive shell game against Canada has been that it is working.  Canada is ultimately 4-0 so far, but they were held close in 3 of their 4 games.  The US has faced similar inferior opponents in Slovakia and Slovenia and just overwhelmed them by scoring goals. 

Canada isn't going to have the same kind of puck possession against the US and outside of the defense really haven't shown any ability to finish plays.  The quick crisp passes are still missing from this team, particularly on the PP.  Maybe those posts start to go in but there really aren't any players who seemed poised for a breakout tonight, even with the shot discrepancy.

From what I saw of those two teams against the US, the games were much more free-flowing.  It was actually against Russia that I saw Russia hang back a lot more, 4 guys back almost all the time, and by the end of that game Russia was really the team taking it to the Americans.

I think it will just be a different game.  Canada has struggled to score because these teams have had almost no forecheck, hung back and clogged the front of the net and basically hoped the goalie would bail them out.  I don't see the U.S. doing that.

Canada struggled to score against Switzerland last Olympics playing a similarly boring style, then lit up Russia.  It's hard to really predict.

 

[Frank E]

IIHF tweet says Tavares is out for the rest of the tourney with leg injury.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Boy, I was getting really close to changing my name to Heroics Shrimps and applying for Latvian citizenship.

 

[Redleaf]

Some of that was probably the Latvians having five guys through the neutral zone on a lot of those rushes. That and being on the Canadian players like second jerseys.

Yeah the American game is going to be very interesting. Every team Canada has played so far has essentially played to not lose. They've locked down defensively and hoped to win a 2-1 or 1-0 game. The US will really be the only team that will attack Canada, and while that may give us some more room to run and gun, it's also going to test our defense and goaltending for the first time all tournament.

I guess, but part of why teams have played a defensive shell game against Canada has been that it is working.  Canada is ultimately 4-0 so far, but they were held close in 3 of their 4 games.  The US has faced similar inferior opponents in Slovakia and Slovenia and just overwhelmed them by scoring goals. 

Canada isn't going to have the same kind of puck possession against the US and outside of the defense really haven't shown any ability to finish plays.  The quick crisp passes are still missing from this team, particularly on the PP.  Maybe those posts start to go in but there really aren't any players who seemed poised for a breakout tonight, even with the shot discrepancy.

From what I saw of those two teams against the US, the games were much more free-flowing.  It was actually against Russia that I saw Russia hang back a lot more, 4 guys back almost all the time, and by the end of that game Russia was really the team taking it to the Americans.

I think it will just be a different game.  Canada has struggled to score because these teams have had almost no forecheck, hung back and clogged the front of the net and basically hoped the goalie would bail them out.  I don't see the U.S. doing that.

Canada struggled to score against Switzerland last Olympics playing a similarly boring style, then lit up Russia.  It's hard to really predict.

Let's hope your right!

 

[Kin]

You know, I'd hope that this tournament would really drive home the point that Canada can no longer count on winning things like this just by virtue of showing up. The rest of the big 6 hockey countries are catching up in terms of talent and other countries are well coached enough that they're going to play styles that give them a puncher's chance.

I don't intend that as a criticism of Canada's team either. These short tournaments are tough, they have very little precedent in international sport and the increased level of competition is a good thing. Brazil might be the best soccer playing country in the world but they don't win every world cup or look at it as a failure if they don't.

Canada will play for a Medal here and, honestly, I really think that is the most anyone can or should expect.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

http://i.imgur.com/Qi6hnVJ.jpg

 

[Redleaf]

You know, I'd hope that this tournament would really drive home the point that Canada can no longer count on winning things like this just by virtue of showing up. The rest of the big 6 hockey countries are catching up in terms of talent and other countries are well coached enough that they're going to play styles that give them a puncher's chance.

I don't intend that as a criticism of Canada's team either. These short tournaments are tough, they have very little precedent in international sport and the increased level of competition is a good thing. Brazil might be the best soccer playing country in the world but they don't win every world cup or look at it as a failure if they don't.

Canada will play for a Medal here and, honestly, I really think that is the most anyone can or should expect.

Pretty sure most Canadian hockey fans are well aware of this. It's not like it was only a few years ago that they were winning every tournament they played in. Nagano and Turin come to mind, but there have been many, many more defeats.

Personally, I find it more satisfying and enjoyable when you know nothing's guaranteed, and every championship win is a battle every step of the way.

This one may very well go to Sweden or the USA. That is why fans need to savor the victories in Salt Lake City and Vancouver when they happen!

 

[Kin]

Pretty sure most Canadian hockey fans are well aware of this. It's not like it was only a few years ago that they were winning every tournament they played in. Nagano and Turin come to mind, but there have been many, many more defeats.

Except I think with Turin and Nagano, which have been the only best-on-best tournaments Canada has lost since the World Cup in '96 the narrative tends to focus on how Canada blew it(Turin) or how one spectacular player sent Canada home(Nagano) rather than "other countries are good, short single elimination tournaments can result in anything happening".

 

[Redleaf]

Pretty sure most Canadian hockey fans are well aware of this. It's not like it was only a few years ago that they were winning every tournament they played in. Nagano and Turin come to mind, but there have been many, many more defeats.

Except I think with Turin and Nagano, which have been the only best-on-best tournaments Canada has lost since the World Cup in '96 the narrative tends to focus on how Canada blew it(Turin) or how one spectacular player sent Canada home(Nagano) rather than "other countries are good, short single elimination tournaments can result in anything happening".

I think that's the media spin. Most knowledgable fans are pretty aware that other countries are getting better at the game, and that Canada doesn't always 'blow it' at these tournaments when they bow out early. At least that's my experience talking with other Canadian hockey fans.

 

[Kin]

I think that's the media spin. Most knowledgable fans are pretty aware that other countries are getting better at the game, and that Canada doesn't always 'blow it' at these tournaments when they bow out early. At least that's my experience talking with other Canadian hockey fans.

I'll direct you then to earlier comments in this thread about the WJC.

 

[ZBBM]

Boy, I was getting really close to changing my name to Heroics Shrimps and applying for Latvian citizenship.

The Gold Medal in Posting, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[TML fan]

I'm just going to come right out and say it.... Kessel and co. are going to kill the Canadians on Friday. I can just feel it. Price will get pulled before the half way mark. Canada doesn't have an answer to the US scoring prowess this tournament. Weber and Doughty cant do it all by themselves.

5-2 U.S.

I think you're looking a little too much into the final scores. USA and Czech's were almost even in shots; US was just able to exploit an abysmal goaltender (Pavelec). Against Russia they were saved by a net being a fraction of an inch off and won in a shootout, in a game that the Russians mostly controlled. Without PP time USA were dominated, imo.

Not to say that USA is bad, mind you, but they certainly shouldn't "kill" Canada. If Canada plays a disciplined game and doesn't give the U.S too much PP time, I feel Canada can take it.

I'm not just looking at the scores, but rather the lack of scoring from Canada, and the abundance of scoring form the US. When two of your defensemen have scored more goals than the rest of your entire team, that doesn't bode particularly well against a team that has been lights out the entire tournament. Can Canada still win? Sure. Latvia almost beat Canada today. Anything can happen. But the odds have suddenly been stacked pretty high against this Canadian squad. Maybe coming in as the underdog will have a positive effect on Canada, but I'm not counting on it.

Canada has needed to generate the majority of their offence from the blue line because they've only played teams who clog the middle and collapse on their goalie. It's hard to get to the middle of the ice and even harder to score from the outside against even a semi-competent goaltender. Plus in the Olympics hooking and holding don't seem to be penalties so it's even easier for teams that only defend, to defend.

Latvia didn't almost beat Canada. They got lucky on a set play and Price didn't play the breakway very well. Latvia may have been in the game on the scoreboard but they never really had a chance to win.

A team always has a chance to win when they hold the other team to a tie game until the final minutes of the third. Latvia most certainly had a chance to win the game today. The fact that they were outshot and outplayed by a wide margin doesn't mean a thing if they were able to score a last minute goal, which could have happened. Have you not been watching the Leafs games this season? 

See, it was just hard for me to picture Latvia scoring another goal from their own end and without the puck.

The difference between the Leafs and Latvia is offensive talent. The Latvians have none. On the other hand, if the Leafs could play defence as well as Latvia...

 

[TML fan]

Pretty sure most Canadian hockey fans are well aware of this. It's not like it was only a few years ago that they were winning every tournament they played in. Nagano and Turin come to mind, but there have been many, many more defeats.

Except I think with Turin and Nagano, which have been the only best-on-best tournaments Canada has lost since the World Cup in '96 the narrative tends to focus on how Canada blew it(Turin) or how one spectacular player sent Canada home(Nagano) rather than "other countries are good, short single elimination tournaments can result in anything happening".

Canada did blow it in Turin.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Filed under 'surprising stats':

@AndrewBerkshire

Ondrej Pavelec's SV% the last two years: .903 | Jonathan Quick's SV% the last two years: .906