Men's Olympic hockey

[OldTimeHockey]

Also, here's an article from 1998 talking about players taking Sudafed to improve performance:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1011875/1/index.htm

A similar scene is being played out in dressing rooms throughout the NHL. The exact number of players who use Sudafed, a nonprescription drug that contains the stimulant pseudoephedrine, in an effort to boost their performance on the ice, is unclear. Two NHL trainers estimate that before a game 20% of the league's players routinely take over-the-counter medications that contain pseudoephedrine, not to combat the sniffles, as the manufacturers intended, but to feel a little buzz. The NHL, however, disputes that figure, saying the percentage of players using drugs such as Sudafed is much lower and that they use them for medicinal purposes only.

Does anyone have any idea what happened with this?

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Hmmm. There is a prescription grade Claritin though. It's stronger and I wonder if something different in it. My daughter takes it for her seasonal allergies as the over-the-counter Claritin doesn't work. Just kinda thinking out loud.

It also wouldn't surprise me if different parts of the world have slightly different formulas for the various brands. The Russian Claritin could contain a banned substance that the North American or Swedish version does not.

Hasn't it been established that he was taking Zyrtec-D, which contains the decongestant and stimulant pseudoephedrine?

Either he or the team doctor screwed up, end of story.  He should either know or seek out information from a reliable authority about whether what he's taking is acceptable or not.

 

[Frank E]

Hmmm. There is a prescription grade Claritin though. It's stronger and I wonder if something different in it. My daughter takes it for her seasonal allergies as the over-the-counter Claritin doesn't work. Just kinda thinking out loud.

It also wouldn't surprise me if different parts of the world have slightly different formulas for the various brands. The Russian Claritin could contain a banned substance that the North American or Swedish version does not.

Hasn't it been established that he was taking Zyrtec-D, which contains the decongestant and stimulant pseudoephedrine?

Either he or the team doctor screwed up, end of story.  He should either know or seek out information from a reliable authority about whether what he's taking is acceptable or not.

Agreed.

We can debate whether or not some of these medications have a discernble effect on performance, but that's kind of irrelevant to the issue.  If it's clearly stated that it's not permitted, then really it's either the team or the player's fault, or a combination of the two.

 

[Kessel Run]

Hmmm. There is a prescription grade Claritin though. It's stronger and I wonder if something different in it. My daughter takes it for her seasonal allergies as the over-the-counter Claritin doesn't work. Just kinda thinking out loud.

It also wouldn't surprise me if different parts of the world have slightly different formulas for the various brands. The Russian Claritin could contain a banned substance that the North American or Swedish version does not.

Hasn't it been established that he was taking Zyrtec-D, which contains the decongestant and stimulant pseudoephedrine?

Either he or the team doctor screwed up, end of story.  He should either know or seek out information from a reliable authority about whether what he's taking is acceptable or not.

From what I've seen it wasn't so much the substance, but the dosage that is allowed during competition.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

If true, I'm not sure how I feel about that.  I think it's kind of crummy to try to manipulate Yzerman the Canadian GM via Yzerman the Lightning GM.  I don't envy Yzerman having to deal with that kind of pressure to sort out what's best for both of his teams.

Well, except if it's true(and I'd say that's a pretty big if), it wasn't really an attempt at manipulation because the decision had already been made and, presumably, St. Louis wouldn't have known that Stamkos wouldn't have been able to go.

True, though he may well have voiced his thoughts to Yzerman (and not necessarily a true ultimatum) in advance of the roster announcement.  I guess my feelings are more accurately that, as a paid member of the Lightning, St. Louis shouldn't begrudge his GM and employer for a decision that has nothing to do with the team that he is paid to play for.  That's all assuming there's any truth to this, of course.

Although, that said, along with the rumours about Cujo feeling slighted by his benching at the 2002 Olympics even the possibility of that does raise the question of whether or not a Hockey Canada should have permanent positions for their head coaching and GM jobs.

Perhaps, and I don't disagree.

 

[Kin]

True, though he may well have voiced his thoughts to Yzerman (and not necessarily a true ultimatum) in advance of the roster announcement.  I guess my feelings are more accurately that, as a paid member of the Lightning, St. Louis shouldn't begrudge his GM and employer for a decision that has nothing to do with the team that he is paid to play for.  That's all assuming there's any truth to this, of course.

I fundamentally agree with you but I suppose there is an unavoidable human element to a reaction like St. Louis' rumoured one here. Especially if Yzerman had said things to St. Louis over the course of his running the team would have left St. Louis thinking that his choice was a pretty safe bet. Still not the reaction you'd want a guy to have but it would go a ways towards explaining some bad feelings.

 

[Bates]

Is it not a little silly that a professional athlete can't take an allergy medicine at the Olympics.  You would thinking the anti-doping would be about steroids and that's it.  What's next a complete ban on smelling salts??

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Is it not a little silly that a professional athlete can't take an allergy medicine at the Olympics.  You would thinking the anti-doping would be about steroids and that's it.  What's next a complete ban on smelling salts??

Pretty big difference between those two things:

Montreal right wing Mark Recchi sees no correlation between pseudoephedrine and dirty play but doesn't deny that Sudafed gets him going. "You get a bit of an upper from it," says Recchi, who no longer takes the medication but admits that at one time he used it every 10 or 15 games. "You get pretty wired up. Sometimes it gets you a little emotional on the ice, a little too fired up."

Brian Savage, a left wing on the Canadiens, takes two Sudafeds before every game at roughly the same time as Moog. Savage says he started the routine three years ago, his second season in the league. "I'm not sure if it pumps me up anymore," he says, "[but] if I'm a little groggy, it brings me up." Sometimes the trouble is coming down. After a game that ends at about 10:15 p.m., Savage can't fall asleep until 2 or 2:30 a.m. "I go out for dinner, have a glass of wine," he says. "Then I can fall asleep."

...

The effects of pseudoephedrine are similar to what Canadian Olympic team doctor Eric Babins calls its "first cousin"?adrenaline, or norepinephrine: It can increase breathing capacity by shrinking and unblocking nasal passages and dilating the bronchial passages while raising the heart rate and blood pressure. The drug stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, which controls involuntary muscles and responses, including the fight-or-flight response so critical in the wild. Players who have used Sudafed say that if they take the medication an hour before a game, they begin to notice its effects 35 or 40 minutes later, during warmups. Doctors say pseudoephedrine is at its most potent about two hours after it is taken, although the drug remains active in the system from eight to 16 hours, depending on the dosage, the formulation and the individual. Potential side effects include tremors and anxiety, but there appear to be no long-term effects unless the user already has a cardiac condition. While the pills may not be physically addictive, the high that the players get from the medication is.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1011875/1/index.htm

 

[hockeyfan1]

If true the only person who looks bad is St. Louis.

I tend to think the trade request probably did happen. St. Louis seems like the type of proud little guy with a chip on his shoulder who would take things personally.

I really doubt anything will come of it though. It was probably resolved internally back in January. That he ended up making the team probably makes the request a non-issue now.

But if it came out back in January I think the story would have blown up and we probably would have seen him being added to the team in a different light, perhaps as an act of appeasement by Yzerman.

Was watching HockeyCentral and they mentioned St.Louis' name in the context of the trade deadline, that it was more than coincidence that he felt snubbed and then we hear sudden talk of him agreeing to a trade.

Sudden may not be the right word here, because according to hockey sources, St.Louis' name had been bandied around earlier in the season on him agreeing to a possible future trade to the New York Rangers, St.Louis' personal preference.  Why the Rangers?  He owns a home in both upstate New York and in Connecticut.  Familiarity, I guess.

The so-called "snub" may have merely accelerated St.Louis' affirmation to a trade.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Best team ever?...

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/thn-in-sochi-why-the-2014-gold-medal-mens-hockey-team-is-canadas-best-ever/

 

[Kin]

I think there's a line between best team ever and best performance ever. It's really, really tough to argue this team, player for player, is better than the 1976 Canada Cup team.

 

[Redleaf]

I think there's a line between best team ever and best performance ever. It's really, really tough to argue this team, player for player, is better than the 1976 Canada Cup team.

I don't think the author of this article is arguing this team was better, player for player, but rather as a group...

"There have been teams with better players, certainly teams with more Hall of Fame players than this one will produce. But in terms of sheer efficiency and the ability to absolutely smother its opponents, no team that has ever worn the maple leaf even comes close."

 

[Kin]

"There have been teams with better players, certainly teams with more Hall of Fame players than this one will produce. But in terms of sheer efficiency and the ability to absolutely smother its opponents, no team that has ever worn the maple leaf even comes close."

Like I said though, there's a difference between best team and best performance.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

Is it not a little silly that a professional athlete can't take an allergy medicine at the Olympics.  You would thinking the anti-doping would be about steroids and that's it.  What's next a complete ban on smelling salts??

Pretty big difference between those two things:

Montreal right wing Mark Recchi sees no correlation between pseudoephedrine and dirty play but doesn't deny that Sudafed gets him going. "You get a bit of an upper from it," says Recchi, who no longer takes the medication but admits that at one time he used it every 10 or 15 games. "You get pretty wired up. Sometimes it gets you a little emotional on the ice, a little too fired up."

Brian Savage, a left wing on the Canadiens, takes two Sudafeds before every game at roughly the same time as Moog. Savage says he started the routine three years ago, his second season in the league. "I'm not sure if it pumps me up anymore," he says, "[but] if I'm a little groggy, it brings me up." Sometimes the trouble is coming down. After a game that ends at about 10:15 p.m., Savage can't fall asleep until 2 or 2:30 a.m. "I go out for dinner, have a glass of wine," he says. "Then I can fall asleep."

...

The effects of pseudoephedrine are similar to what Canadian Olympic team doctor Eric Babins calls its "first cousin"?adrenaline, or norepinephrine: It can increase breathing capacity by shrinking and unblocking nasal passages and dilating the bronchial passages while raising the heart rate and blood pressure. The drug stimulates the sympathetic nervous system, which controls involuntary muscles and responses, including the fight-or-flight response so critical in the wild. Players who have used Sudafed say that if they take the medication an hour before a game, they begin to notice its effects 35 or 40 minutes later, during warmups. Doctors say pseudoephedrine is at its most potent about two hours after it is taken, although the drug remains active in the system from eight to 16 hours, depending on the dosage, the formulation and the individual. Potential side effects include tremors and anxiety, but there appear to be no long-term effects unless the user already has a cardiac condition. While the pills may not be physically addictive, the high that the players get from the medication is.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1011875/1/index.htm

Years ago, I used to sake pseudoephedrine regularly before my rec league hockey games.  It probably started "legitimately" enough, having a stuffy nose before a game, but I found it unquestionably gave me a significant energy boost on the ice, so it ended up part of my pre-game routine.  I eventually stopped because it interfered with my sleep way too much, just sitting in bed for hours and eventually falling asleep after 3am.

 

[bustaheims]

Is it not a little silly that a professional athlete can't take an allergy medicine at the Olympics.  You would thinking the anti-doping would be about steroids and that's it.  What's next a complete ban on smelling salts??

I don't know. I think there's a pretty massive gulf between selling salts and a chemical that has long been a significant ingredient in homemade crystal meth.

 

[L K]

Per Kypreos' Twitter:

"It's believed St.Louis did ask #Lightning 4 trade when left off Canada. I'm told some #NHL clubs not sure if he still feels the same way now"

If true, I'm not sure how I feel about that.  I think it's kind of crummy to try to manipulate Yzerman the Canadian GM via Yzerman the Lightning GM.  I don't envy Yzerman having to deal with that kind of pressure to sort out what's best for both of his teams.

I'm not sure that it is really manipulation though.  I get that Yzerman is responsible for taking the best team, but if you are going to argue that St. Louis is one of the best players in the game, and you are going to rely on him to sacrifice his body for your team, it's inevitable to be seen as a slap in the face when you don't get picked.  It's Yzerman saying "you aren't good enough".  It isn't like St. Louis is a borderline player, he was the top scorer in the league so I think there is a pretty reasonable argument that he earned a spot. 

Beyond that, while he wasn't a difference maker at the tournament, I think his play for Canada justified his roster spot too.

A similar thing happened when Quinn pulled Cujo in favour of Brodeur for the Olympics.  It strained their relationship.

 

[Jalili]

Regarding St. Louis, I don't think he should have taken it as an insult to not make the team. There were other equally good if not better forwards left off as well.

A lot went into Hockey Canada's decision-making process beyond who scored the most points, or who was on the waiting list the longest.

He is without a doubt a great player but I don't think he ever was or should have been a lock to make the team. He was always a borderline pick. That's where the dissonance seemed to occur among the fans when they were outraged about him being left off.

 

[Bates]

A professional athlete was not permitted from playing in the final game because he took an allergy medication that a Doctor gave him to take for 7 years.  That is just silly in my opinion.  And personally I don't care what legal product an athlete takes to help them perform.  I just want to see the best perform their best.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

A professional athlete was not permitted from playing in the final game because he took an allergy medication that a Doctor gave him to take for 7 years.  That is just silly in my opinion.  And personally I don't care what legal product an athlete takes to help them perform.  I just want to see the best perform their best.

A medication containing a product known for the past 15 years to be banned from use by the IOC. Not knowing that is silly.

 

[Bates]

It was silly to take a medication that is banned.  It is also silly that we are telling a professional athlete what to take.  It is not banned by the league that he plays in.  These are not your normal Olympic athletes.