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Mitch Marner: what now?

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Zee said:
I don't buy this Islanders $12.5M offer sheet BS. One, it's Lou. Two, since when does stuff that Lou is about to do leak like this?
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Don?t they only have less than 9 mil in cap space?
 
Joe S. said:
Zee said:
I don't buy this Islanders $12.5M offer sheet BS. One, it's Lou. Two, since when does stuff that Lou is about to do leak like this?
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Don?t they only have less than 9 mil in cap space?
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Yep, Lou will do things to get more cap space. Or so the story goes
 
Bates said:
Going against conventional wisdom Lou is going to build his team around the wings.
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I mean Lou and his whole "crest on the front not the name on the back" doesn't strike me as the type of guy to go this far to get an RFA. Dropping over $12M to satisfy a player ego and give up four first rounders  in the process doesn't strike me as very Lou like but hey I made be wrong.  I think if he knows his team at all he might realize they're not as good as their record was last season and the situation in net might be a problem.
 
Nik the Trik said:
slapshot said:
Quite frankly I getting pretty sick of this a Leaf fan. Yeah, he's "earned the right" blah, blah, blah. But if money and ego are the motivating factors, let him take his selfishness down the highway. I feel bad for his teammates. They want to build a winner in Toronto and all share in it together, but if he does want that we'll see where his loyalty really lies.
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That seems pretty unfair to Marner. Guys like Tavares and Matthews don't want to win any more than Marner does, Dubas was just willing to give them the contracts they wanted. They were more than capable of taking less than they felt they deserved to make it easier on the Leafs and their ability to win but, what, because Marner's the last guy to sign somehow it's incumbent on him to take one for the team? None of the deals the Leafs have signed recently involved anyone doing the Leafs any favours.
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I totally disagree. I definitely think Matthews could have gotten McDavid if he really wanted to hold out like Nylander and now Marner have.  Clearly Dubas was thinking 11.6 for Matthews was going to be the highest end of any of the players he needed to sign and that's why that deal got done quickly.  Taveras, it was widely reported, could have signed with San Jose for $13 million, so no question he took a hometown discount.  Does Marner really want to press the Leafs for $12.5 million because he thinks he's worth more than Matthews and as much as McDavid - think again. If he's holding out for that kind of money, that is what I have an issue with. If Dubas was low balling him at say $9.5 million (which is not that much of a low ball), then I wouldn't have a problem with Marner. If Marner can't sign fr $10.5 million given that's what probably reflects a fair market value for him, and thinks he need a couple mil more, than that's what I have an issue with.  On a final offer basis, I might even consider $11 million but nothing over that.
 
slapshot said:
Nik the Trik said:
slapshot said:
Quite frankly I getting pretty sick of this a Leaf fan. Yeah, he's "earned the right" blah, blah, blah. But if money and ego are the motivating factors, let him take his selfishness down the highway. I feel bad for his teammates. They want to build a winner in Toronto and all share in it together, but if he does want that we'll see where his loyalty really lies.
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That seems pretty unfair to Marner. Guys like Tavares and Matthews don't want to win any more than Marner does, Dubas was just willing to give them the contracts they wanted. They were more than capable of taking less than they felt they deserved to make it easier on the Leafs and their ability to win but, what, because Marner's the last guy to sign somehow it's incumbent on him to take one for the team? None of the deals the Leafs have signed recently involved anyone doing the Leafs any favours.
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I totally disagree. I definitely think Matthews could have gotten McDavid if he really wanted to hold out like Nylander and now Marner have.  Clearly Dubas was thinking 11.6 for Matthews was going to be the highest end of any of the players he needed to sign and that's why that deal got done quickly.  Taveras, it was widely reported, could have signed with San Jose for $13 million, so no question he took a hometown discount.  Does Marner really want to press the Leafs for $12.5 million because he thinks he's worth more than Matthews and as much as McDavid - think again. If he's holding out for that kind of money, that is what I have an issue with. If Dubas was low balling him at say $9.5 million (which is not that much of a low ball), then I wouldn't have a problem with Marner. If Marner can't sign fr $10.5 million given that's what probably reflects a fair market value for him, and thinks he need a couple mil more, than that's what I have an issue with.  On a final offer basis, I might even consider $11 million but nothing over that.
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Agreed. My gut feeling is, the Leafs offer is somewhere in the 9.5-10M range, and the Marner camp is in the 11-11.5M range. Split the difference on the high end if that's the case and agree to 10.6M already. Lets move this thing along!
 
Nik the Trik said:
slapshot said:
Also, if I were Dubas, I'd have Matthews, Tavares, Rielly, and maybe Anderson, in on this conversation, along with management. This is a crossroads kind of decision and the whole franchises needs to be a united front.
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If you involve his teammates then the likelihood is that it won't be a united decision. At least not if the idea is to let him walk. These guys tend to be loyal to each other and I'm betting that most guys on the Leafs would rather have Marner and a league minimum guy on defense than no Marner and Ceci playing like a league minimum guy.
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Maybe they are loyal, but they also aren't stupid. They know there is a lot you can do with $12.5 million and four first round picks to build the team as well.
 
bustaheims said:
Nik the Trik said:
slapshot said:
Quite frankly I getting pretty sick of this a Leaf fan. Yeah, he's "earned the right" blah, blah, blah. But if money and ego are the motivating factors, let him take his selfishness down the highway. I feel bad for his teammates. They want to build a winner in Toronto and all share in it together, but if he does want that we'll see where his loyalty really lies.
Click to expand...

That seems pretty unfair to Marner. Guys like Tavares and Matthews don't want to win any more than Marner does, Dubas was just willing to give them the contracts they wanted. They were more than capable of taking less than they felt they deserved to make it easier on the Leafs and their ability to win but, what, because Marner's the last guy to sign somehow it's incumbent on him to take one for the team? None of the deals the Leafs have signed recently involved anyone doing the Leafs any favours.
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Not only that, all of this anger seems to be largely fueled by rumours and speculation. Marner hasn?t actually done anything other than not accept the offers the Leafs have made so far. We have no idea what they were, what he?s actually looking for, etc. The media is building a narrative that may not be super connected to reality. Until there?s a contract or offer sheet signed, we?re really grasping at straws here.
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That may indeed be true, could be a bunch of crap, the point of commenting on it is just to generate discussion and opinions.
 
slapshot said:
Zee said:
I don't buy this Islanders $12.5M offer sheet BS. One, it's Lou. Two, since when does stuff that Lou is about to do leak like this?
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The leak would obviously come from the Marner camp.
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And Lou is famous for his rules that if any leak comes out from the other side that he's dealing with he'll walk away from the deal.
 
https://twitter.com/theflopfish/status/1147252295203078144

I?ve been this bored, but not this skilled.
 
This is Dubas? most recently liked tweet on Marner Maybe Signs an Offersheet Day.

https://twitter.com/lizkislik/status/1147206046009745408
 
slapshot said:
I totally disagree. I definitely think Matthews could have gotten McDavid if he really wanted to hold out like Nylander and now Marner have.  Clearly Dubas was thinking 11.6 for Matthews was going to be the highest end of any of the players he needed to sign and that's why that deal got done quickly.  Taveras, it was widely reported, could have signed with San Jose for $13 million, so no question he took a hometown discount.  Does Marner really want to press the Leafs for $12.5 million because he thinks he's worth more than Matthews and as much as McDavid - think again. If he's holding out for that kind of money, that is what I have an issue with. If Dubas was low balling him at say $9.5 million (which is not that much of a low ball), then I wouldn't have a problem with Marner. If Marner can't sign fr $10.5 million given that's what probably reflects a fair market value for him, and thinks he need a couple mil more, than that's what I have an issue with.  On a final offer basis, I might even consider $11 million but nothing over that.
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Except all the reports with regards to Marner weren't that he was asking for 12.5 for the Maple Leafs but rather that he wanted to be paid like Tavares and Matthews. So:

Tavares offered 13 by someone, signed with the Leafs for 11
Matthews potentially could have been offered McDavid money, signed for 11.6
Marner could have a 12.5 million offer sheet but wanted 11 or 11.6 from the Leafs

But, somehow, you're arguing that Marner is the only one who didn't want to take a little less from the Leafs than he potentially could have gotten elsewhere. It just doesn't add up.

But beyond that, it doesn't really matter what Tavares was offered elsewhere or what you think Matthews could have held out for. The simple reality is they got to go to the Leafs and say what they wanted and both guys asked for contracts that their on-ice play didn't really justify. Neither Matthews nor Tavares have any claim to being one of the top 2 or 3 players in the league but both guys wanted AAV's that put them in that conversation. Tavares could have asked for 10, Matthews too. That would be far more reflective of their place within the league's salary structure. But both guys cared more about getting paid and their status then helping the Leafs out with those extra millions.

I'm not begrudging them for that. They wanted a certain amount from the Leafs and Dubas gave it to them. But the latter half of that sentence is the only thing that separates them from Marner.
 
I really would have expected an offer sheet to drop by now if one was coming (not that I thought it was likely in the first place).  There?s also not a lot of new information coming out that is going to change anyone?s mind either.  So it would be nice if the two sides just kinda got their deal-making over with... of course, the Rantanen?s and Points haven?t made a deal yet either ...
 
I think everyone is waiting for someone to blink. If Laine or Point or Marner cave and sign long term for 8 or 9 or whatever then other teams will want to use that deal as a market setter and vice versa if one of those guys gets 10+
 
Nik the Trik said:
I think everyone is waiting for someone to blink. If Laine or Point or Marner cave and sign long term for 8 or 9 or whatever then other teams will want to use that deal as a market setter and vice versa if one of those guys gets 10+
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There's such a stalemate going on that I would bet that some agents, and probably some GM's, have gotten together on their min/max number for at least a few of these guys.

This could very well go on all summer, since there's really not much of an incentive to push the process forward until we get into training camp situations.

By the way, does Trouba just really enjoy the arbitration process?
 
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