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Mitch Marner: what now?

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herman said:
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm not so sure that Columbus would trade Jones for Marner straight up, so them adding to the deal probably wouldn't work.

I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

Picking up Marner, but giving up one of the best young defensemen in the league AND a 1st rounder?
 
Bullfrog said:
herman said:
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm not so sure that Columbus would trade Jones for Marner straight up, so them adding to the deal probably wouldn't work.

I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

Picking up Marner, but giving up one of the best young defensemen in the league AND a 1st rounder?

This is why I need an editor. Fix it for me, plz
 
I still see a pre-Opening Night signing at whatever is the biggest pie left on the table because
a) he wants to play here
b) his best chance at living up to those numbers is playing alongside Tavares or Matthews
c) no one else is going to bother dealing with him
d) the Leafs ability to sign him diminishes as the season starts, so really the max available to him is 10.55M

If it passes that day, you'll know it was never about the money
 
herman said:
Chris Johnston on a bunch of stuff: https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/pinder-steinberg/chris-johnston-justin-faulks-future-zachas-new-deal-marners-negotiations/
Marner talk starts at 12:40
He wants a 3 year deal that is equivalent to Matthews' (4th year QO), and has been shopping that ask around the league. At the same time, CJ notes that "It's hard to carve through what they believe and what they're asking for" because this is still in the negotiation stage.

MLHS Transcript
 
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.
 
Bullfrog said:
Bender said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith

Some examples of bad faith include: a company representative who negotiates with union workers while having no intent of compromising;[4]

I think that clearly is the Marner camp right now. And maybe there's no objective way to determine this, but this is my viewpoint on the matter based on the info.

How can you think anything "clearly" about Marner's negotiating position? We really don't know anything about what they're negotiating, other than looking at Ferris's historical tactics.
And what has been leaked. If Mitch/Agent think he's worth more than $11m per on a 7yr deal so be it. But I think every rational person wouldn't make Mitch Marner the highest paid winger in the league (behind Panarin who was UFA) Who wouldn't rather have Kucherov at 9.5?
 
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.

Funny to read about a guy who has already been traded called virtually untouchable, especially when I agree with you.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.

I don't disagree with you, but just for fun:
Marner 94 pts > Panarin 87 pts > Jones 57 pts
AND he's a +22 last year and only 22 years old and a line driver from the wing (as good as a top centre).

*nudge nudge wink wink*
 
herman said:
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.

I don't disagree with you, but just for fun:
Marner 94 pts > Panarin 87 pts > Jones 57 pts
AND he's a +22 last year and only 22 years old and a line driver from the wing (as good as a top centre).

*nudge nudge wink wink*

Trying to figure out if you are Paul, Ferris, or Dreger in real life now!!!
 
Bates said:
herman said:
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.

I don't disagree with you, but just for fun:
Marner 94 pts > Panarin 87 pts > Jones 57 pts
AND he's a +22 last year and only 22 years old and a line driver from the wing (as good as a top centre).

*nudge nudge wink wink*

Trying to figure out if you are Paul, Ferris, or Dreger in real life now!!!

Marner 94 pts +22 > Tavares 88 pts +19 > Mathews 73 pts -9
It's very obvious.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.

Yeah, I don't see it either. 

I'm having trouble finding a decent trading partner for a Marner deal that makes sense for both teams...
 
Frank E said:
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.

Yeah, I don't see it either. 

I'm having trouble finding a decent trading partner for a Marner deal that makes sense for both teams...

Boeser out of Vancouver? Canucks get the more dynamic, higher ceiling player; Toronto gets a 22yo 30+ goal scoring RW, smaller cap hit and 1st round pick?
 
herman said:
Is Nashville still kicking themselves?

It's funny how they've gone from being loaded on defence (especially at RD) and having nothing at centre to sorta the opposite. After the Subban trade their 2nd pairing RHD could be... Steve Santini? Maybe Fabbro but he's still just a rookie. Meanwhile at C they've collected Johansen, Duchene, Turris, and Bonino.
 
herman said:
Bates said:
herman said:
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
I haven't been able to get a good gauge of what Columbus is feeling following the expiration and subsequent departures of Duchene, Panarin, and Bobrovsky. Picking up a Marner would expedite their 'retool' significantly.

I still don't see it. Jones is a beast. And being that mythical #1 RHD should make him virtually untouchable. If they felt they had to move someone it'd be Werenski.

I don't disagree with you, but just for fun:
Marner 94 pts > Panarin 87 pts > Jones 57 pts
AND he's a +22 last year and only 22 years old and a line driver from the wing (as good as a top centre).

*nudge nudge wink wink*

Trying to figure out if you are Paul, Ferris, or Dreger in real life now!!!

Marner 94 pts +22 > Tavares 88 pts +19 > Mathews 73 pts -9
It's very obvious.

Gotta be Paul?? You've really played the long game on this site waiting for your time, well done.

Why can't I do smilies??
 
CarltonTheBear said:
herman said:
Is Nashville still kicking themselves?

It's funny how they've gone from being loaded on defence (especially at RD) and having nothing at centre to sorta the opposite. After the Subban trade their 2nd pairing RHD could be... Steve Santini? Maybe Fabbro but he's still just a rookie. Meanwhile at C they've collected Johansen, Duchene, Turris, and Bonino.

It's not like we're looking at that centre depth thinking wowzers though. Duchene and Turris landing in the same spot eventually makes me giggle.
 
The idea that Marner was ever going to sign for less than 10 was never tenable.  Now it looks like 11 is the floor, except for all that cap implication stuff that I don't understand.
 
If they end up doing 3 years at a high number, that's just another massive headache in three years: giant third year qualifying offer, arbitration 4th and then pure UFA. In 3, 5, 7 years I really don't see the Marner camp line changing (we're the same as Auston) and it always being a headache. They might draw their line and risk losing Marner for a year, but Dubas is on record saying he cares about asset management and maximizing the window. He'll overpay just to get that done.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
The idea that Marner was ever going to sign for less than 10 was never tenable.  Now it looks like 11 is the floor, except for all that cap implication stuff that I don't understand.

I'm probably going to get this wrong somewhere in the details (Deebo, help!)

Similar to what Nylander went through last year, signing after the season starts for an RFA means the annual value of the cap hit for the first year is pro-rated up to match the annual value for the remaining years, e.g. 6.9 AAV is prorated to 10+M annually for the 2 months missed; total actual cap hit from the daily aggregate totaled for that first season was still 6.9M.

This year, it is different because of LTIR. The Leafs will be using LTIR, and thus there is no cap space, and therefore, their cap calculations aren't considered done with daily cap hit aggregation; they're only looking at the annual values (i.e. the easy way).

If Marner wants a 10.5M AAV for the duration of his next contract but tries to take the Leafs into Dec 1 the way Nylander did, then the 10.5 has to be pro-rated to 13M (or whatever, I'm not doing the math). Then when you look at the annual cap for the Leafs, even with the 10.55M LTIR space, they're not going to be able to fit it unless they shed like 3M in cap off the roster. If Marner wants to push to December, the amount the Leafs can sign him for goes down to about 7M, which is counter productive in every possible way. Basically every day beyond Oct 2 the Marner camp pushes this, the Leafs can only sign him for less and less.
 
disco said:
If they end up doing 3 years at a high number, that's just another massive headache in three years: giant third year qualifying offer, arbitration 4th and then pure UFA. In 3, 5, 7 years I really don't see the Marner camp line changing (we're the same as Auston) and it always being a headache. They might draw their line and risk losing Marner for a year, but Dubas is on record saying he cares about asset management and maximizing the window. He'll overpay just to get that done.

I don't mind pushing this problem away for 3 years. If the Leafs don't win the Cup in that time, or if they don't even make it to the Finals in that time, then that'll probably mean drastic changes will need to be made anyway. And potentially trading Marner at that point could be what we need to do.

And if they do win the Cup in that time period then quite frankly I won't even care what happens after.
 
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